vandals at it again

This topic is not the place to debate the T&C's of Cable Forum, so please don't. The Administrators & Moderators will decide if any rules have been broken.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Highest prison population in Europe huh, maybe so.
Falling levels of crime eh? Or is it falling levels of reported crime,

Reported and the experience of crime as determined by the British Crime Survey, based on interviews with 44,000 people representative of the population

knowing before hand that the police wont turn up why bother reporting it?

As I said above, kick up a stink.

Lying in wait would not stop any self defence plea, if these ***** came onto his property and threatened him, he is entitled to retaliate to protect himself and the key word here, his property.

Attack is not a legitimate form of defence here.

A baseball bat is not an offensive weapon it is a piece of sports equipment, much like a cricket bat or snooker cue.

I think you are deliberately missing the point. Though of course should you find somebody in your back yard with a jemmy and a screwdriver I presume you will apply the same logic. A baseball bat is an offensive weapon if you use it as such or intend t use it as such.

By not allowing us to defend ourselves and our posessions we are creating a greater criminal risk to everyone. Not only do we have to repair damage, we have to pay higher insurance premiums whilst these little *******s can go into anyones house take what they want and have no fear of the law, because if the police where even called, and they bothered to turn up, and the police managed to bungle their way through to an arrest, they wouldnt get more than a caution anyway. Yet we, you and I, have to pay more and more every year to allow these kids to do that, then the police ask for a increase in their split of council tax......for what exactly?

You can defend yourself reasonably. You cannot attack with a baseball bat.

I guess we must stop jailing people for burgulary because our prisons are becoming full of pensioners who are evil criminal masterminds for withholding their council tax payments. If you looked into what people are in jail for, you would find it amazingly sparse of people convixted of crimes such as we are discussing. its either very minor or very serious. there doesnt seem to be any in-between.

Agreed that putting Council Tax protestors in nick is stupid. Agreed that a lot of people are in prison for minor offences - that's why they are so clogged up when crime rates are falling (that's reported and experiential)

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

No, you kick up a stink about policing, not take things into your own hands, especially if your solution is simply violence.

And to repeat, it is illegal.

Kicking up a stink about policing will do diddly..........and it's just possible that, while taking the law into your own hands may be illegal, it is on occasion, right

Originally Posted by Escapee

Surely Cf's T&C's taking them in the order you have listed, are there to stop members being abusive towards one another, harassing each other, being defamatory, disclosing confidential info about one another without permission, harming threatening another member, libelling another member, racially abusing another member. I would expect these T&C's also take into account any posts that would bring the website under legal scrutiny, and the moderators would obviously err on the side of caution if they were unsure.

I have not been abusive to any member, defamatory or libelous although the same cannot be said for all members.

I wouldn't expect the website to condone any sort of violence, but the law is clear that a homeowner feeling threatened can defend himself. I would call seven large youths a threatening situation, if I was waiting for them or not!

I have certainly not taken your posts as offensive and i don't think they will make me go out and beat the crap out of a thug just because i was reading your post. In fact i would have no problem using a baseball bat on someone on my property without my permission who has refused to leave when told to.

The public today has had enough and it's time the tables where turned.

Have a green one from me

Originally Posted by andyl

Attack is not a legitimate form of defence here.

But he isnt attacking is he, if these people were on HIS property, causing damage to HIS property then he is defending HIS property. It matters not that he may have been waiting for them to do this.
Under English law you can use reasonable force if you believe either you or your property is at risk. Belting someone with a baseball bat would not be classed as over use of force.
Obviously if you decided to mash their skull to a pulpy mess with fragments of brain tissue for afters it would be deamed so, but belting the git on the arm and perhaps breaking his arm is NOT.
repeatedly smashing a bat into someones face would be too much force, swinging and connecting once would not be.
The attacker does not have to be armed, you can defend yourself and your property if you believe it or yourself is at risk. If it turns out there was no risk that does not outlaw your already achieved actions.

Why dont we look at the people commiting crimes and getting that stopped rather than trying to blame the ordinary person for defending what they have worked bloody hard for.
Why does it make me sick to my stomach that some people really believe that criminals are just misguided but the innocent person defending himself and family is an horrific criminal that should strung up.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Why does it make me sick to my stomach that some people really believe that criminals are just misguided but the innocent person defending himself and family is an horrific criminal that should strung up.

And my fear is that if a certain political party gets in power that will become the norm. The same party i would not trust with the defence of this country. But that is for another thread.

[handyman]

I think a certain forum member does not live in the real world.

Prison is supposed to be a deterant. As it is they live better than a lot of law abiding citizens. If you commit a crime then you lose your rights IMHO. Its very easy to live within the law and if anyone broke in here then they could expect a bloody good battering. Totally agree that the law is about as useful as a chocolate teapot nowadays because they are all scared of harming the law breakers rights.

What a crock.
__________________

Originally Posted by Bill C

And my fear is that if a certain political party gets in power that will become the norm. The same party i would not trust with the defence of this country. But that is for another thread.

Which party are you meaning? Coz I vote lib and i fully belive they would be the party to grab crime by the nuts and also to address the base of crime by educating people.

Originally Posted by handyman

__________________

Which party are you meaning? Coz I vote lib and i fully belive they would be the party to grab crime by the nuts and also to address the base of crime by educating people.

You got it in one .

I have a different view point than you . This is based on the complete idiot that was voted in where i live. At least i can say i did not vote for the wally.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by handyman

I think a certain forum member does not live in the real world.

Prison is supposed to be a deterant. As it is they live better than a lot of law abiding citizens. If you commit a crime then you lose your rights IMHO. Its very easy to live within the law and if anyone broke in here then they could expect a bloody good battering. Totally agree that the law is about as useful as a chocolate teapot nowadays because they are all scared of harming the law breakers rights.

Well, having seen the inside of a prison (photos, before you get any ideas), and spoken several times to an ex-con, I would tend to disagree with your assessment of prisons as being better than being outside.

Do you care to provide any backup for your assertion that the authorities are scared of harming lawbreakers rights?

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Well, having seen the inside of a prison (photos, before you get any ideas), and spoken several times to an ex-con, I would tend to disagree with your assessment of prisons as being better than being outside.

Do you care to provide any backup for your assertion that the authorities are scared of harming lawbreakers rights?

Well that Ex con is telling you lies, I can confirm that inmates get their own cells with en suite, playstations, SKY TV and all the other mod cons that go with it. What happend to the real prison with bars on the windows and a bucket to do your stuff in? If the prisons were like that they wouldn't commit crime would they?

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

But he isnt attacking is he, if these people were on HIS property, causing damage to HIS property then he is defending HIS property. It matters not that he may have been waiting for them to do this.
Under English law you can use reasonable force if you believe either you or your property is at risk. Belting someone with a baseball bat would not be classed as over use of force.
Obviously if you decided to mash their skull to a pulpy mess with fragments of brain tissue for afters it would be deamed so, but belting the git on the arm and perhaps breaking his arm is NOT.
repeatedly smashing a bat into someones face would be too much force, swinging and connecting once would not be.
The attacker does not have to be armed, you can defend yourself and your property if you believe it or yourself is at risk. If it turns out there was no risk that does not outlaw your already achieved actions.

Why dont we look at the people commiting crimes and getting that stopped rather than trying to blame the ordinary person for defending what they have worked bloody hard for.
Why does it make me sick to my stomach that some people really believe that criminals are just misguided but the innocent person defending himself and family is an horrific criminal that should strung up.

It bloody well does matter if he's lying in wait. I have no problem with people genuinely defending themselves or their families. Attacking vandals with baseball bats does not fit that bill, especially if that attack is pre-meditated (and I don't care if he lies to the police; it's the action that's deplorable).

Frankly I'm disgusted that people can openly express such a love of violence - however much they dress it up as being a just reacton to criminal activity - and that CF provides a platform for such thuggish nonsense.
__________________

Originally Posted by Nidge

Well that Ex con is telling you lies, I can confirm that inmates get their own cells with en suite, playstations, SKY TV and all the other mod cons that go with it. What happend to the real prison with bars on the windows and a bucket to do your stuff in? If the prisons were like that they wouldn't commit crime would they?

Which prison are we talking about here? Not any of the three I've been to, though these were not open prisons designed to hold low risk prisoners and those nearing the end of their sentences who the Prison Service is trying to prepare for a return to society.

have a look at this

Take the virtual tour better than some hotels i have stayed in.

Originally Posted by Bill C

have a look at this

Take the virtual tour better than some hotels i have stayed in.

What is it you object to? A recreation area? A gym? Presumably not the block, strip searches etc. And anyone who's visited someone in one of our older prisons will be delighted to tell you what wonderful visitor facilities they have. I'm not quite sure how severe you expect prisons to be but I would have thought a communal recreation area and a gym to maintain fitness are not overly sumptuous, given that people are often locked up in cells for such a large part of the day and, let's not forget, locked up full stop for all of the day (excepting day release which is no doubt another liberal liberty bringing the country to its knees) Bear in mind that without some form of recreation, prisoners and therefore prisons would be unmanageable.

Some people here seem to be living in - revelling in - the Dark Ages.

[punky]

The police are only part of the solution. The other parts of the solution need to buck up their ideas too...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4384374.stm

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by punky

The police are only part of the solution. The other parts of the solution need to buck up their ideas too...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4384374.stm

Its strange to hear that re-offending is so high, especially when we hear from some quarters that prisons are such terrible places. I dont think we can use the excuse anymore that the vast majority are down and outs/homeless etc, vandalism and burglary seems to be a crime across all classes these days.

Walking down the street and attacking a vandal with a weapon is entirely different to attacking one to defend yourself on your own property. If only Tony Martin had shot those criminals at close range in the front, instead of the back he would never of gone to jail.

I thank you all for your support, and the number of green reps I have received over this thread speaks volumes about the opinion of the majority of law abiding citizens in this country. I am however surprised that I have not received at least one red one to add to the one from a long gone liberal from this site.

I got that for calling offenders and druggies "****"