Manchester synagogue attack

They must surely have known they had been shot long before being told by a pathologist ?

Originally Posted by Paul

They must surely have known they had been shot long before being told by a pathologist ?

Depends where the wound is - if it was on the trunk, there would be a lot of blood, and the entry wound of a bullet isn’t very big; the first responders would be checking for a pulse, and if no pulse, moving on to the next victim.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Depends where the wound is - if it was on the trunk, there would be a lot of blood, and the entry wound of a bullet isn’t very big; the first responders would be checking for a pulse, and if no pulse, moving on to the next victim.

Quite possibly mistaken for a knife wound initially, it was obviously all hectic . . and nobody thought of a bullet wound when all the initial info was of a knife

[Sephiroth]

I just watched the Synagogue vigil on TV. One of the speakers was David Lammy (where was the PM?). He was mercilessly heckled because of his past pronouncements on Israel, which are taken to stoke antisemitism.

His words were useless; thought are with you; we are with you; we have your back ... all that platitudinal stuff.

Apart from Starmer, other Labour front-benchers plus Rayner turned up. The Home Secretary was there and looked absolutely unphased. Remember, in her address yesterday, she never mentioned antisemitism.

Not only was yesterday evil stuff, it was an indictment of the government that has failed to deal with antisemitism in a definitive way. Stopping any marches that fuel antisemitism; educating whities on these demos who wear the Palestinian shawl but have absolutely no sense of history or proportion or an understanding of how they stoke antisemitism.

Will the government's focus still be on a definition of the word "Islamophobia"? As far as I am concerned there is no Islamophobia.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I just watched the Synagogue vigil on TV. One of the speakers was David Lammy (where was the PM?). He was mercilessly heckled because of his past pronouncements on Israel, which are taken to stoke antisemitism.

His words were useless; thought are with you; we are with you; we have your back ... all that platitudinal stuff.

Apart from Starmer, other Labour front-benchers plus Rayner turned up. The Home Secretary was there and looked absolutely unphased. Remember, in her address yesterday, she never mentioned antisemitism.

Not only was yesterday evil stuff, it was an indictment of the government that has failed to deal with antisemitism in a definitive way. Stopping any marches that fuel antisemitism; educating whities on these demos who wear the Palestinian shawl but have absolutely no sense of history or proportion or an understanding of how they stoke antisemitism.

Will the government's focus still be on a definition of the word "Islamophobia"? As far as I am concerned there is no Islamophobia.

Carrying out acts of Islamophobia and anti-semitism are surely both hate crimes.

The PM's wife is Jewish so he is not as distant from that community as you might want to believe.

Since moving into Downing Street, the Starmers have kept up a tradition of having Shabbat dinners on Friday nights, although the Prime Minister has admitted that his job has meant it has been difficult for him to join in. Sir Keir has called the Shabbat a “rock in the week” for the family.

He defended the tradition with unusual passion when he was criticsed by Rishi Sunak before the election for saying that he would still seek to take Friday evenings off in Downing Street.

The family have also attended the Liberal Jewish Synagogue, an imposing building across the street from Lord’s Cricket Ground, and last November Sir Keir made a visit to another London synagogue, in South Hampstead.

Lady Starmer still has members of her extended family living in Tel Aviv, and Sir Keir has spoken about how they were affected by the Oct 7 terror attack by Hamas and the subsequent war in Gaza.

https://archive.ph/1B67N#selection-3651.0-3717.194

[papa smurf]

lammy was sent out as a human shield so starmer could make his escape

People on the marches need to police the fringes that express anti-semitic statements better, or the actual police need to remove those people.

I don't think opposing Israeli actions in Gaza is anti-semitic, nor is protesting those actions. It's important we separate out those two issues. Jewish people around the world are not responsible for Israeli actions.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Carrying out acts of Islamophobia and anti-semitism are surely both hate crimes.

The PM's wife is Jewish so he is not as distant from that community as you might want to believe.


https://archive.ph/1B67N#selection-3651.0-3717.194

I'm not sure what your point is, Andrew.

I've said that there is no Islamophobia so far as I can see. I take the term "phobia", as most people would, as having the meaning of irrational fear.

Antisemitism is evident.

I'd also point out that antisemitism results at the extreme in death and causes fear amongst the Jewish community.

Anti-Islam demonstrations are rare; there is no violence from people with anti-Islam feelings.

I warn you, and all quasi-apologists for the cultural threat that is taking place, that the politicians are giving this country away to people who, eventually, will make us all face east.



---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

People on the marches need to police the fringes that express anti-semitic statements better, or the actual police need to remove those people.

I don't think opposing Israeli actions in Gaza is anti-semitic, nor is protesting those actions. It's important we separate out those two issues. Jewish people around the world are not responsible for Israeli actions.

Anti-Israel demonstrators stoke antisemitism. We can see that right in front of our eyes. "From the river to the sea", chanted by whities, is surely a manifestation of antisemitism and fully implies the genocide that they claim to be protesting against.

History has shown that Jews are very easy target.

[Pierre]

Islamophobia is a poor word to use. A fear of Islam, or more correctly Islamists is entirely rational.

Anti-Muslim Hatred is a better term.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Anti-Israel demonstrators stoke antisemitism. We can see that right in front of our eyes. "From the river to the sea", chanted by whities, is surely a manifestation of antisemitism and fully implies the genocide that they claim to be protesting against.

But what's the alternative? Ban the protests entirely? I don't think it's reasonable to ban protests about the actions of a nation-state.

I think there is a problem that anti-semites use this issue to indulge their anti-semitism, but we need to separate these people from those who are just protesting the Israeli state.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Damien

But what's the alternative? Ban the protests entirely? I don't think it's reasonable to ban protests about the actions of a nation-state.

I think there is a problem that anti-semites use this issue to indulge their anti-semitism, but we need to separate these people from those who are just protesting the Israeli state.

In an ideal world, so to speak, what you say is right. But in this nasty world, where the Jews are pretty much the same fair game that they have been in the past, Israel/Zionism and Jews are all mixed in the minds who have an antisemitic tendency.

What can be done? The proscription of Palestine Action is a lever that should be fully used (army if necessary); likewise stamping on "from the river to the sea" placard holders. Such arrested people should, by law, attend a course that explores their attitudes and educates them as to consequences and other methods demonstration.

All very difficult. Lammy saying that his thoughts are with the Manchester Jewish community is no more than blah blah that keeps Lammy away from stuff he enjoys doing - like demanding reparations to our past colonies, recognition of Palestine etc.

[Pierre]

Attacker was on bail for a rape charge.

https://news.sky.com/story/synagogue...ester-13442674

Diversity is our strength.

[thenry]

Not enough against him to remand him in custody?

Originally Posted by Pierre

Attacker was on bail for a rape charge.

Diversity is our strength.

What does being on bail for rape have to do with "Diversity" or commiting a terrorist attack

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I just watched the Synagogue vigil on TV. One of the speakers was David Lammy (where was the PM?). He was mercilessly heckled because of his past pronouncements on Israel, which are taken to stoke antisemitism.

His words were useless; thought are with you; we are with you; we have your back ... all that platitudinal stuff.

Apart from Starmer, other Labour front-benchers plus Rayner turned up. The Home Secretary was there and looked absolutely unphased. Remember, in her address yesterday, she never mentioned antisemitism.

Not only was yesterday evil stuff, it was an indictment of the government that has failed to deal with antisemitism in a definitive way. Stopping any marches that fuel antisemitism; educating whities on these demos who wear the Palestinian shawl but have absolutely no sense of history or proportion or an understanding of how they stoke antisemitism.

Will the government's focus still be on a definition of the word "Islamophobia"? As far as I am concerned there is no Islamophobia.

I’ll begin by stating that yesterday was horrific evil scenes (because it would appear that to some if you don’t explicitly state this you’re supporting the action)

I think your thinking regarding Islamophobia is way off. From what I could find there were 6000 reported incidents of Islamophobia reported in 2024 vs iirc 3800 (ish) reported incidents of antisemitism

To suggest Islamophobia isn’t an issue with Islamophobia is ridiculous but alas completely expected from you.