Call for shut down of Muslim immigration

[Stop It]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

You seem to have forgotten that FREE SPEECH does not mean that ANYONE is allowed to INCITE hatred of other groups and to promote violence and abuse of any group.

And of course, freedom of speech only extends to protection from persecution by the government for your views.

It does not mean you can say anything you like and expect people to say "Yes, Quite". Nobody should ever be shocked that when they use inciteful and inflammatory language that people react in the same tone in response. In fact, it is very often the case that people who seek to remove the rights from others seem to the first to try to protect their own (Case In Point, most of Donald Trumps rhetoric), funny that.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Free speech shouldn't and doesn't extend to being irresponsible or offensive, why should anyone's right to free speech extend to causing someone else upset

Point of order: it does extend to being offensive. As long as it's the right kind of offensive of course, one that hasn't been banned yet.

In theory, at least, the right to free speech trumps the right to be free of upset, bar in 'safe spaces' where children who've gone to university go to avoid having to grow up and face reality.

Or at least it used to. I may be behind the times and somewhat old fashioned in placing generally free expression ahead of hurt feelings.

I don't think Trump should be banned - let him come here and be laughed at.

'Free speech' should not be an excuse for inciting violence.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don't think Trump should be banned - let him come here and be laughed at.

Yes, many will laugh but there will also be a sizable IMO minority that will like what he has to say.

Especially in the light of:

Stark figures for prisoners currently serving sentences for terror offences showed that 131 out of 137 “considered themselves Muslim”.

Linky

I'm sure many will also say that if we had been a bit more selective about who we had let in over the decades we might be somewhat safer now?

'Free speech' should not be an excuse for inciting violence.

Nor should violence or the threat of violence be used an excuse to suppress views that a vocal minority, particularly on the left, disapprove of.

[Stop It]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Yes, many will laugh but there will also be a sizable IMO minority that will like what he has to say.

Especially in the light of:

Linky

I'm sure many will also say that if we had been a bit more selective about who we had let in over the decades we might be somewhat safer now?


Nor should violence or the threat of violence be used an excuse to suppress views that a vocal minority, particularly on the left, disapprove of.

Threats of violence? You mean the sorts that the likes of the BNP, EDL and other racist groups regularly use? There is a difference between disapproving of someone views, and silencing them.

How many times must someone point out that freedom of speech does not remove the right to reply, or strongly disagree. Freedom of speech means you are able to express your views in an open manner without the threat of sanction by government, it is not a license to say what you like without consequence in broader society. If your views are found wanting by your peers, then their judgement is a fully legitimate and required tenet of the freedom you enjoy.

Also, regarding immigration policy we have seen reductions in crime y/y for decades, and even more so since the 90's and the signing of Maastricht, so as we are safer WITH the immigration policy we have had, there is little evidence that we would be any safer with being "selective".

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I'm sure many will also say that if we had been a bit more selective about who we had let in over the decades we might be somewhat safer now?



Nor should violence or the threat of violence be used an excuse to suppress views that a vocal minority, particularly on the left, disapprove of.

[ianch99]

What is this country coming to?

Muslim forced off Tube after commuter complained he used iPad 'suspiciously'

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by ianch99

What is this country coming to?

Muslim forced off Tube after commuter complained he used iPad 'suspiciously'

It's not coming to anything. Bigots and morons have and will always be bigots and morons.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It's not coming to anything. Bigots and morons have and will always be bigots and morons.

Seems a lot more of them in the current climate ..

[Ramrod]

He probably had this on it

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Point of order: it does extend to being offensive. As long as it's the right kind of offensive of course, one that hasn't been banned yet.

In theory, at least, the right to free speech trumps the right to be free of upset, bar in 'safe spaces' where children who've gone to university go to avoid having to grow up and face reality.

Or at least it used to. I may be behind the times and somewhat old fashioned in placing generally free expression ahead of hurt feelings.

Only if your a douche it does, personally I don't think anyone sane or with a scintilla of intelligence would use this right as a cop out for their inappropriate behaviour

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Only if your a douche it does, personally I don't think anyone sane or with a scintilla of intelligence would use this right as a cop out for their inappropriate behaviour

You would put hurt feelings above free speech?!

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

You would put hurt feelings above free speech?!

I just prefer to think of others before I let my mouth run of and if on occasion situations get the better of me I don't hide behind 'I have the right of free speech', to me it's a cop out and a bit of an insult to the entire concept.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Only if your a douche it does, personally I don't think anyone sane or with a scintilla of intelligence would use this right as a cop out for their inappropriate behaviour

No indeed they wouldn't, however we were talking about freedom of speech, not speech without consequences.

Freedom of speech allows me to describe someone who gets upset at everything as an extra-special snowflake, and allows them to tell me to sit on it and rotate in return.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I just prefer to think of others before I let my mouth run of and if on occasion situations get the better of me I don't hide behind 'I have the right of free speech', to me it's a cop out and a bit of an insult to the entire concept.

Well I'm sorry, but I prefer to reserve, and cherish, the right to tell an extremist a**hole to take his (or her) koran or bible and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I'm amazed that you don't agree with this concept but that is your perogative.......strange as it is. I am truly amazed at your thinking.

---------- Post added at 23:29 ---------- Previous post was at 23:28 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Freedom of speech allows me to describe someone who gets upset at everything as an extra-special snowflake, and allows them to tell me to sit on it and rotate in return.

Indeed.