Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
24-01-2015, 16:24
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#46
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
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Originally Posted by Russ
Corrected that for you 
Yes, alongside as a separate subject like Maths, English etc. If schools want to put Creationism as part of RE then why not. It's exactly how it was in my Catholic primary and secondary schools. |
Clarifying, the Creationism causing issues here was I believe young Earth creationism. Hardcore cosmology isn't anywhere in the syllabus and what caused the Big Bang is something we don't make any solid claims on understanding.
When the heads of both the Anglican and Catholic denominations agree Genesis is allegory not theory it seems fair for me to defer to them 
I would run with the same thoughts on the other world religions too. There is simply too much evidence opposing YEC to consider it anything else and those trying to present it as in any way scientific are, at very best, doing themselves a disservice.
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24-01-2015, 16:25
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#47
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
It was correct the first time |
Agreed.
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24-01-2015, 16:27
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#48
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
It was correct the first time |
but it makes him feel warm and fuzzy ,if you listen carefully you can hear him purring like a cat
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24-01-2015, 18:48
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#49
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
It was correct the first time |
Opinions are like butt-holes remember....
---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
Clarifying, the Creationism causing issues here was I believe young Earth creationism. Hardcore cosmology isn't anywhere in the syllabus and what caused the Big Bang is something we don't make any solid claims on understanding.
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I see a difference between Creationism and youth Earth Creationism, I favour the former.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
When the heads of both the Anglican and Catholic denominations agree Genesis is allegory not theory it seems fair for me to defer to them |
Selectively deferring to them then 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
I would run with the same thoughts on the other world religions too. There is simply too much evidence opposing YEC to consider it anything else and those trying to present it as in any way scientific are, at very best, doing themselves a disservice.
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You appear to be comparing evidence with belief/theory - I'm not a supporter of Creationism being taught in favour of or replacing science. In fact I don't know of anyone who had that at school (other than the essential atheist collective who will happily tell us the same tales of wild-eyed schoolmasters 'demanding' they believe every word of the bible.....).
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24-01-2015, 20:04
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#50
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The Dark Satanic Mills
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
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Originally Posted by Russ
Nothing wrong with it being taught in schools as long as it's alongside Science etc rather than instead of it.
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As long as it is taught as part of religious studies.
I.e. Some religions believe this, but it's bollocks
THEN, there's nothing wrong with it.
---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Corrected that for you
Yes, alongside as a separate subject like Maths, English etc. If schools want to put Creationism as part of RE then why not. It's exactly how it was in my Catholic primary and secondary schools. |
Theory?
As in unsupported idea theory, or scientific theory?
The two are very different.
---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:59 ----------
Before anyone spouts out that evolution is a just theory etc, etc blah blah.
Read this first.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
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24-01-2015, 20:07
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#51
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
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Originally Posted by Pierre
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You're the only one who has mentioned it - in fact I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone on CF suggest that.
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24-01-2015, 20:31
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#52
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
You appear to be comparing evidence with belief/theory - I'm not a supporter of Creationism being taught in favour of or replacing science. In fact I don't know of anyone who had that at school (other than the essential atheist collective who will happily tell us the same tales of wild-eyed schoolmasters 'demanding' they believe every word of the bible.....).
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Nah not really.
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A traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining a natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
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A widely held but false belief or idea.
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Any institution teaching the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum teaches YEC. There are about 50 of those.
Independent Islamic schools, amongst others, will likewise be teaching YEC.
---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:27 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Selectively deferring to them then |
Absolutely. Anyone who defers to anyone or anything completely either has profound disabilities and is forced to do so by these or is a waste of grey matter.
---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
You're the only one who has mentioned it - in fact I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone on CF suggest that.
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I have. Completely with quotes from Answers in Genesis as I remember.
No matter.
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24-01-2015, 20:45
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#53
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
Nah not really.
Any institution teaching the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum teaches YEC. There are about 50 of those.
Independent Islamic schools, amongst others, will likewise be teaching YEC.
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Neither you or I know enough about teachings in Islamic schools to be able to comment with any authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
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Indeed no matter - clearly I was talking about proponents commenting on it.
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24-01-2015, 23:21
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#54
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Neither you or I know enough about teachings in Islamic schools to be able to comment with any authority |
You forget that I'm a member of an organisation that actively campaigns against such things in state schools and have actively campaigned against faith schools and against teaching of creationism in state funded schools, alongside changing of the inspection regime for all schools, independent and state, hence have a few bits of knowledge on the matter more widely
---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Indeed no matter - clearly I was talking about proponents commenting on it.
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Said poster was most definitely a proponent of YEC and raised arguments straight out of the AIG playbook to try and undermine the mass of scientific evidence behind evolution and the old Earth model.
This was years ago though. This site has been around a while.
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25-01-2015, 00:07
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#55
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Opinions are like butt-holes remember....
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As long as you remember it just your opinion that it's a theory
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25-01-2015, 06:15
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#56
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
You forget that I'm a member of an organisation that actively campaigns against such things in state schools and have actively campaigned against faith schools and against teaching of creationism in state funded schools, alongside changing of the inspection regime for all schools, independent and state, hence have a few bits of knowledge on the matter more widely |
Said organisation is unbiased and 100% neutral then?
---------- Post added at 07:15 ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
As long as you remember it just your opinion that it's a theory |
Of course it's my opinion, who else's opinion would I be giving??
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25-01-2015, 07:20
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#57
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The Dark Satanic Mills
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Said organisation is unbiased and 100% neutral then? |
Should it be?
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25-01-2015, 07:25
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#58
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
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25-01-2015, 08:47
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#59
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vox populi vox dei
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
As long as you remember it just your opinion that it's a theory |
to every one else its a myth ,"a widely held but false belief or idea."
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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25-01-2015, 14:25
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#60
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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Said organisation is unbiased and 100% neutral then? |
Nope, of course not, but that's the good thing about statements of fact backed with evidence from source, it leaves little room for bias, especially when stating something so binary.
If the criteria for something being considered a 'fact' is that it's presented by an organisation with no bias that's 100% neutral we can pretty much disregard all information presented by a campaign.
If you think the BHA are factually inaccurate I'd highly recommend you let them know. The schools named as using Creationist curricula seem fine with it though given none of them have taken any kind of legal action regarding what would, clearly, be a case of defamation.
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