Virgin to launch 2Mb Size S

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by xocemp

No, I'm done with you for now. You'll know if I want anything more

Let us hope it's a bit more constructive at the time

thanks for asking kind sir.

I'm far from kind.

Ok got some now.

Do you think its the push to have legacy dial up moved to he size s or do you think there is something a foot with the .net aspect of the business?

Will you be downgrading?

Since its opt in, will you wait till roll out and contact CS and look to strike a retention deal so you can move to the new S ( there is a credit crunch )

Originally Posted by Gary L

I'm far from kind.

Oh, I bet your a sweet, polite pussy cat IRL
Don't be so down on yourself

@Ben, so do you know if there will be an offer made to the legacy dial up customers to take the new size s?

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by xocemp

@Ben, so do you know if there will be an offer made to the legacy dial up customers to take the new size s?

Doubtful - especially BB L is £1 cheaper than Subscription dial-up anyway

BB S is LAST RESORT only. It's hasn't been designed for 'up-front' offers

Thanks for the swift reply Ben. One more question if I may, I don't want to seem as though I'm badgering you and of course I understand this will be your opinion unless you know for sure.

Since the BB s is a last resort do you think/know if the offer will be made only if a criteria is meet on existing packages & deals?

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

[BenMcr]

There is no standard option to downgrade to BB S. None of the main offers (e.g 3 for £30/£35) allow it.

For existing broadband customers it will an out of contract Customer Relations option only

For non-broadband customers it is 'only if you really really don't want BB L/XL/XXL/free router/V Stuff/PC Guard Total' etc

Thank you BenMcr.

[fireman328]

My g/f has dialup because she uses it only for e-mail and checks her mail every week lol. She prefers TXT for comms.

[smithzert]

I'm resurrecting this thread with a bit more information - for those like me who want the cheapest connection and are already virgin customers.

There is some talk in here of why someone would opt for size s when they can get a faster connection for the same price. Well, you can't if you are an existing virgin customer. The cheapest offer on http://allyours.virginmedia.com/webs...ervice.do?id=2 at present is broadband L + phone M at £14 a month after the first 3 months bait price. However, anyone already signed up to virgin can't get this price unless they cancel for 6 months and then sign up again as a new customer. I was on size m + phone for £14.50 a month. They tried to put me on a higher speed for £18 a month. I don't want or need a faster speed. Nor do I want to speed £18 a month for the internet! The only lower option I was offered was size s for £14 a month. This is with no phone, but I never used it anyway - I use a mobile - I only had it because it was part of a bundle at no extra cost.

There is also some talk of crippling traffic management if you are on size s. According to http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php you get throttled 50% on your upstream and 75% on your downstream between 9am and 9pm (once you reach the threshold). 'Unlimited' otherwise I guess. If you don't download a lot this won't affect you anyway.

My own experience on size s is that it is exactly the same as the connection I had before (size m). I have the same upload and download maximums and when I do get throttled it is down to the same speeds as before. Also, I don't get throttled between 9am and 9pm as the page above states, but just now and again, again just as I used to on size m.

It's my guess that the truth of it is that if you are an existing customer they just try to hike the price to get you to upgrade once you reach the end of your contract. If you say no, they shove you on the lowest tariff and do nothing physically to alter your connection. It's just a marketing ploy to increase your monthly payments. Of course if you want to pay £50 a month instead of £14 for 'xxl' then go for it, but I bet you won't use it, unless you are one of the minority who are downloading things 24 hours a day. The vast majority download one or two large things rarely and maybe watch something on iPlayer every so often, with the end result that the connection is left virtually unused for 99% of the time - at whatever speed you are on - and at £50 a month for xxl I say thanks but no thanks.

If you decide to opt for size s: you can still download things just as before (it takes a bit longer than xxl - but so what?), and you can still watch TV on iPlayer with no stalling in playback (and so I presume with other such players too) .

I hope this helps anyone trying to decide whether to pay extra for a faster speed when their existing virgin contract is up.

[BenMcr]

There are several errors in the above

However, anyone already signed up to virgin can't get this price unless they cancel for 6 months and then sign up again as a new customer. I was on size m + phone for £14.50 a month. They tried to put me on a higher speed for £18 a month

Most people on Size M + Phone get it for £12 a month (£20 BB M + £11 Phone - £8 discount) which is £2 cheaper than BB L + Phone

Even if you were on the £15.50 BB M + Phone for 12 month offer, once that expires it goes to £23 in total - so again £12 a month for BB M

If you take BB S + Phone it is £11 a month (£18 + £11 - £7 discount) - so you save yourself a whole £12 a year

My own experience on size s is that it is exactly the same as the connection I had before (size m). I have the same upload and download maximums and when I do get throttled it is down to the same speeds as before.

BB M 2Mbit traffic management drops you to 1Mbit during any STM period

BB S traffic management drops to 512Kbit during any STM period

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 ----------

Of course if you want to pay £50 a month instead of £14 for 'xxl' then go for it,

Of course you also don't have to compare one price which is without a phoneline to another price which is WITH a phoneline for dramatic effect

BB XXL is £35 when you take a phone, just as BB L is £14 when you take a phone

[smithzert]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

There are several errors in the above

Nothing intentional, and I checked it all as I posted, but I thank you anyway. You seem to be in the know though, so perhaps you could comment further on the following.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Most people on Size M + Phone get it for £12 a month (£20 BB M + £11 Phone - £8 discount) which is £2 cheaper than BB L + Phone

I quoted broadband L + phone M at £14 a month from http://allyours.virginmedia.com/webs...ervice.do?id=2 after the first 3 months bait price. Can I assume that your £12 a month is calculated from ((£5 x 3 months) + (£14 x 9 months)) / 12 months = £11.75 a month? Because I see no £12 a month on that page. The reason I used the after bait price was because there is no 3 month bait discount for existing customers renewing their term.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Even if you were on the £15.50 BB M + Phone for 12 month offer, once that expires it goes to £23 in total - so again £12 a month for BB M

I was on £14.50 not £15.50 because I was receiving a £1 discount for ebilling. Yes you are right, they originally tried to double my price to £23, but upon phoning I was offered £18 a month which, after my refusing that, was reduced to £14. I don't quite understand what prices you are quoting, so I will say that my £14 a month is (according to the letter) actually £18 a month - £3 'loyalty' - £1 ebilling, giving £14.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

If you take BB S + Phone it is £11 a month (£18 + £11 - £7 discount) - so you save yourself a whole £12 a year

I would be very very interested in where you are getting this because I was not offered this. This is effectively what I had originally (broadband s is the same as my original broadband m). I asked (repeatedly) and they (repeatedly) quoted me £18 for broadband + phone (I'm not sure which broadband speed that was for). They even phoned me days later after I had refused the £18 'offer' to try to get me to sign up for it again and I, once again, asked what the cheapest broadband they could give me was (with or without a phone) and they said (again) broadband s for £14. So, please tell me exactly what I should say to them to get this broadband s + phone for £11 a month that you are quoting. I will then use a link to your reply in an email to them to query why I am not allowed on this tariff.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

BB M 2Mbit traffic management drops you to 1Mbit during any STM period

BB S traffic management drops to 512Kbit during any STM period

I get confused by all these anagrams and upstream/downstream so I quoted the figures from http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php verbatim. I just checked again and my figures are correct (according to that virgin traffic management page). As I say, I have no idea what you mean by STM and so on, so I don't know if you are agreeing with me or not. If not, then the virgin page is wrong!

I then said "My own experience on size s..." and stated my actual experience, which is most definitely not wrong, and is the same as I had on broadband m. It amounts to 270,000 bytes received per second (according to the networking tab in windows task manager). When choked it goes down to 135,000 bytes received per second.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Of course you also don't have to compare one price which is without a phoneline to another price which is WITH a phoneline for dramatic effect

BB XXL is £35 when you take a phone, just as BB L is £14 when you take a phone

I wasn't trying for dramatic effect, I was comparing my £14 a month with no phone to the price for xxl with no phone as stated on http://allyours.virginmedia.com/webs...ervice.do?id=2, which is £50. But, you are half right, because I did blank the less prominent £35 a month price. Why do they make the lower price with more features less prominent?! In fact, why do they offer broadband without phone at all, because I assume that even if you wanted some other phone supplier you would/could sign up for the lower bundle price with a virgin phone and just not use it? Or not.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by smithzert

I quoted broadband L + phone M at £14 a month from http://allyours.virginmedia.com/webs...ervice.do?id=2 after the first 3 months bait price. Can I assume that your £12 a month is calculated from ((£5 x 3 months) + (£14 x 9 months)) / 12 months = £11.75 a month? Because I see no £12 a month on that page. The reason I used the after bait price was because there is no 3 month bait discount for existing customers renewing their term.

No - I was quoting for BB M customers which no longer appears on the sales website because the product was withdrawn from new sales in February

I was on £14.50 not £15.50 because I was receiving a £1 discount for ebilling. Yes you are right, they originally tried to double my price to £23, but upon phoning I was offered £18 a month which, after my refusing that, was reduced to £14. I don't quite understand what prices you are quoting, so I will say that my £14 a month is (according to the letter) actually £18 a month - £3 'loyalty' - £1 ebilling, giving £14.

In that case your original price should have worked out as follows:

BB M £18
Phone £11
Phone/BB Saving -£8
Additional Saving -£5.50
E-billing Discount -£1
=£14.50

The £5.50 discount would have ran out at 12 months and the BB M charge increase to £20 this month which makes BB M £12 (£20 - £8 discount) on top of phone line rental - £2 less than BB L is

what I should say to them to get this broadband s + phone for £11 a month that you are quoting. I will then use a link to your reply in an email to them to query why I am not allowed on this tariff.

What I meant is that BB S is £11 ON TOP of the Phone line so £22 a month in total - a whole £1 cheaper the BB M + Phone @ £23

I get confused by all these anagrams and upstream/downstream so I quoted the figures from http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php verbatim. I just checked again and my figures are correct (according to that virgin traffic management page). As I say, I have no idea what you mean by STM and so on, so I don't know if you are agreeing with me or not. If not, then the virgin page is wrong!

50% of 2 is 1 (BB M 2Mbit)

75% of 2 is 0.5 (BB S)

So BB S on Subscriber Traffic Managment has less thant BB M 2Mbit

I wasn't trying for dramatic effect, I was comparing my £14 a month with no phone to the price for xxl with no phone as stated on http://allyours.virginmedia.com/webs...ervice.do?id=2, which is £50. But, you are half right, because I did blank the less prominent £35 a month price. Why do they make the lower price with more features less prominent?! In fact, why do they offer broadband without phone at all, because I assume that even if you wanted some other phone supplier you would/could sign up for the lower bundle price with a virgin phone and just not use it? Or not.

Personally I don't know why. Some people just don't want a Virgin phone and prefer to pay more

[smithzert]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

No - I was quoting for BB M customers which no longer appears on the sales website because the product was withdrawn from new sales in February

So the price of £12 is no longer available.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

In that case your original price should have worked out as follows:

BB M £18
Phone £11
Phone/BB Saving -£8
Additional Saving -£5.50
E-billing Discount -£1
=£14.50

The £5.50 discount would have ran out at 12 months and the BB M charge increase to £20 this month which makes BB M £12 (£20 - £8 discount) on top of phone line rental - £2 less than BB L is

Yes this was one of the things that bugged me when I first signed up. Splashed all over the blurb was "no need to pay BT for line rental". It's a shame virgin forget to mention that you are just paying them instead.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

What I meant is that BB S is £11 ON TOP of the Phone line so £22 a month in total - a whole £1 cheaper the BB M + Phone @ £23

And still £7.50 more than I was paying for broadband m + phone (£22 - £14.50). And £8 more than I'm paying for broadband s (which is the same speed as I was getting for £14.50 a month).

Originally Posted by BenMcr

50% of 2 is 1 (BB M 2Mbit)

75% of 2 is 0.5 (BB S)

So BB S on Subscriber Traffic Managment has less thant BB M 2Mbit

This is just statistics. And confuses me at best. What I want to know is if I have my connection going at full speed for 24 hours, what amount of data can I download. And I want the figure to include the data I can't download because my connection is being choked. Then I want that figure for all the speeds that virgin offer. Kind of like the banks do with AER. Otherwise it's impossible to compare like for like.

Because of this: I sign up for latest greatest speed X. But if I download more than Y in some period I get choked, meaning for the period I am choked I cannot download at the advertised speed X. If Y is low, and the period of choking is half the day, all I can actually manage to download is 0.75 X (ie. half the day at X + half the day at 0.5 X). All the figures are meaningless when quoted at full tilt. It's just another multinational company using bait and switch to fool the unwary (who are the vast majority). If anyone thinks I'm wrong I'll sell you my farrari that goes 250 mph for ten times the price of my 'worse' car that goes 70mph. Shame you can't go faster than 70 mph on any road (legally anyway), and most of the time you will be going 30 mph in traffic.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Personally I don't know why. Some people just don't want a Virgin phone and prefer to pay more

Yes but why is it £50 without the phone and £35 with the phone? My guess (and it is only a guess) is that virgin call charges are high, meaning that what they don't charge in the monthly fee they more than claw back in monthly call charges. Bait and switch is bait and switch no matter how you spin it.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by smithzert

So the price of £12 is no longer available.

Not unless you are already on BB M

For the third time - when your offer ran out YOU WERE PAYING £12 FOR BB M (+ £11 line rental). The same as everyone else is/will be

Yes this was one of the things that bugged me when I first signed up. Splashed all over the blurb was "no need to pay BT for line rental". It's a shame virgin forget to mention that you are just paying them instead.

No they didn't forget. It's on the adverts, in the contract and on your bill

And still £7.50 more than I was paying for broadband m + phone (£22 - £14.50).

Because that offer was 12 month price only - as it said when you took it out! (The adverts stated BB M for £4.50 a month for 12 months when you take a Virgin phoneline)

And £8 more than I'm paying for broadband s (which is the same speed as I was getting for £14.50 a month).

Because you now don't have a phone line and it is a basic service of course it will be cheaper!

This is just statistics. And confuses me at best. What I want to know is if I have my connection going at full speed for 24 hours, what amount of data can I download. And I want the figure to include the data I can't download because my connection is being choked. Then I want that figure for all the speeds that virgin offer. Kind of like the banks do with AER. Otherwise it's impossible to compare like for like.

On BB S if you download at full speed for 15 Mins between 9am - 9pm you will then get your speed cut by 75% for the next 12 hours. Clear enough for you?

Yes but why is it £50 without the phone and £35 with the phone? My guess (and it is only a guess) is that virgin call charges are high, meaning that what they don't charge in the monthly fee they more than claw back in monthly call charges. Bait and switch is bait and switch no matter how you spin it.

It's called business. All companies will want you to have more than one service with them. It is YOUR choice whether to do so or not

[smithzert]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

For the third time - when your offer ran out YOU WERE PAYING £12 FOR BB M (+ £11 line rental). The same as everyone else is/will be

Look, you quoting me

Originally Posted by BenMcr

BB M £18
Phone £11
Phone/BB Saving -£8
Additional Saving -£5.50
E-billing Discount -£1
=£14.50

The £5.50 discount would have ran out at 12 months and the BB M charge increase to £20 this month which makes BB M £12 (£20 - £8 discount)

which I did read and digest thank you, is nonsense. I was paying, as you rightly quote, £14.50 a month for broadband m + phone. The fact that you then fudge the figures with + this and - that is twaddle. I paid £14.50 a month for broadband m + phone. I am now paying £14 for broadband s and no phone. If you honestly think the internal +'s and -'s mean anything then good luck to you. Do you want to buy my house for £1? The only thing is, you'll have to buy the keys too, and they're £1,000,000. Do you see? All that matters is the final cost. Nothing else. It's marketing nonsense. Another example: my current charge of £14 is actually made up of £18 (for the broadband) - £3 ('loyalty' bonus) - £1 for ebilling. Now, the 'loyalty' bonus is simply a marketing kludge to twiddle the charge so that it remains competitive with other ISPs. If it were really a loyalty bonus (note no quotes this time) I would be charged the price that new customers are charged - lets take that as £14 a month as that is the cheapest price from http://allyours.virginmedia.com/webs...ervice.do?id=2 - minus my loyalty bonus of £3, giving a price of £11 per month. But I'm not am I? No, I'm charged £14 a month. 'Loyalty' bonus. Phah.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

No they didn't forget. It's on the adverts, in the contract and on your bill

Do you guys go on a course that teaches you to talk nonsense? When I signed up it was not on the adverts. This I can prove - I took an image of the advert page before I signed up and will post it if you contradict me again - all it says is $4.50 + £11 a month for the phone. That indicates a charge of £11 for the phone, not the line rental and, as I stated before, it actually says "with most other providers you need to pay line rental - but not with virgin. Think of the savings each month". How much clearer can that be a lie? As for being in the contract, writing things in really small writing is always guaranteed to get peoples attention isn't it? My bill? You don't get that until after you sign up do you now? Blimey O Riley.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Because that offer was 12 month price only - as it said when you took it out! (The adverts stated BB M for £4.50 a month for 12 months when you take a Virgin phoneline)

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Because you now don't have a phone line and it is a basic service of course it will be cheaper!

I never denied it. I was merely comparing it to the current price for the same speed. Not everything people write is a criticism. (I usually put those in bold.)

Originally Posted by BenMcr

On BB S if you download at full speed for 15 Mins between 9am - 9pm you will then get your speed cut by 75% for the next 12 hours. Clear enough for you?

We've wandered off into twaddle again. I suggest you read this thread: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...s-service.html. In it I describe how my connection does not do what you suggest (which you have simply taken from the virgin traffic management page). In fact, as with every other person that mentions it at all, my speed goes up and down like a yo-yo. Once again this is not a criticism, as I don't really care about the speed, but you quoting what is written on virgin's PR pages as being the truth is not helpful in the slightest. If you like, I will post an image of my download meter from today, where I have been downloading a 4GB Linux DVD image, with the speed going up and down and up a down and up and down...

But then why bother? You'll just call me a liar again won't you?

Originally Posted by BenMcr

It's called business. All companies will want you to have more than one service with them. It is YOUR choice whether to do so or not

No, it's called bait and switch. You bait them in with a low price (written as £5 a month, then hike the price later on (written as for the first 3 months, then £14 a month after that). Then, after a year, you make the lowest prices (even with the 'loyalty' bonus) unavailable to your existing customers, and use their payments to subsidise the discounts for the new victims, who will themselves become susidisers a year later. Don't confuse marketing cons with decency. I bought a new door lock from a locksmith once and it did not fit my door (which was my mistake). I took it back and he replaced it for the correct one, despite the fact that I had opened the packet containing the one I had. Conversely, I bought a heater from Comet, took it home, and it did not work. Obviously I had to unpack it to discover that. I took it back. They refused to replace it because I had unpacked it. Do you see the difference? Let me spell it out: I will buy more things from the locksmith. I will not buy more things from Comet. One is good business, the other is Dell Trotter. Where do you think virgin stands? Perhaps more importantly: is your name Rodney?

You know if you are not satisfied with what VM offers you can always move to another ISP..It will be less stressful in the long run..