Jewish population on the increase

[Russ]

If I didn't know better I'd say you're trying to lay the cause of 'Jew-hate' at the feet of Christianity.

So why is it none of the Christians I know (or have met at various rallies - thousands in attendance) have anti-Semitic views?

And I still don't seem to have a response to the question of why non-Christians have issues against Jews.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

If I didn't know better I'd say you're trying to lay the cause of 'Jew-hate' at the feet of Christianity.

So why is it none of the Christians I know (or have met at various rallies - thousands in attendance) have anti-Semitic views?

And I still don't seem to have a response to the question of why non-Christians have issues against Jews.

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were trying to deny that anti-semitic actions have had their roots in christianity.
Let's not forget, I mentioned Islam.
I've also mentioned the resentment and jealousy caused by them being prosperous (through restrictions on the type of work they were allowed to do ironically).
With the church allowing and in many cases promoting the persecution of jews, it became socially acceptable to even those who do not follow christianity.
Just as it's socially acceptable for Brits to insult the French, and in France for them to try and insult us. See people sticking two fingers up at others Russ or are you blind to that too, along with the non-christian reasons I've already given for anti-semitic views?

If you don't know why the general population these days are less tollerant of anti-semitic views, perhaps you should visit your neighbour again and ask what he did during WW2? It may help refresh your memory.
While you're there, ask him if he thinks 6 million murdered isn't a massive figure.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Russ B

And I still don't seem to have a response to the question of why non-Christians have issues against Jews.

Take your pick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were trying to deny that anti-semitic actions have had their roots in christianity.

I'm not trying to deny anything - I'm just not convinced yet. With the greatest of respect I don't consider you anywhere near impartial enough towards Christianity to take your word on this.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

With the church allowing and in many cases promoting the persecution of jews, it became socially acceptable to even those who do not follow christianity.

OK here we go - 'the church', that can mean anyone. Do you mean Catholicism, or generally anyone who follows Christ?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Just as it's socially acceptable for Brits to insult the French, and in France for them to try and insult us. See people sticking two fingers up at others Russ or are you blind to that too, along with the non-christian reasons I've already given for anti-semitic views?

So far you have been pretty tenuous, sorry.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If you don't know why the general population these days are less tollerant of anti-semitic views, perhaps you should visit your neighbour again and ask what he did during WW2? It may help refresh your memory.

Usual tactic of putting words in my mouth? I have never questioned why people are (or should be) less tolerant of anti-semites.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

While you're there, ask him if he thinks 6 million murdered isn't a massive figure.

I shall, although I'll put it in context in the way you have failed to do. You know, in the grander scheme of things, which is what I originally said. You must have missed it. Compared to total populations.

---------- Post added at 12:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

Take your pick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

I'm aware of that, it's just most of Xaccers put forward seemed to be aimed at Christians so the question was pointed at him.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I'm not trying to deny anything - I'm just not convinced yet. With the greatest of respect I don't consider you anywhere near impartial enough towards Christianity to take your word on this.
.
.
.
.

I'm aware of that, it's just most of Xaccers put forward seemed to be aimed at Christians so the question was pointed at him.

In all fairness I think Xaccers pointed out more reasons than just Christianity. You seem to mention him putting a lot of words into your mouth/misintrepreting what you say etc etc, but all I see coming across your posts is a feeling he just has a personal crusade against Christianity.
He has been pretty impartial in this thread. You asked for reasons why people dont like Jews, he gave a whole big list.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I'm not trying to deny anything - I'm just not convinced yet. With the greatest of respect I don't consider you anywhere near impartial enough towards Christianity to take your word on this.

Yet you claim to be aware of the reasons behind anti-semitism via the wiki article, which makes clear the role of christianity and the church in the persecution of Jews for deicide.
So which is it? You're not aware of the accusation of deicide and were fibbing about being aware of the reason mentioned in the wiki article, or you were aware but are fibbing about it?

OK here we go - 'the church', that can mean anyone. Do you mean Catholicism, or generally anyone who follows Christ?

Someone who follows christianity is not the church are they?
Those who followed the religion up until relatively recently were actually following the church's teachings.

So far you have been pretty tenuous, sorry.

So you chose to ignore them then. No change there.

Usual tactic of putting words in my mouth? I have never questioned why people are (or should be) less tolerant of anti-semites.

Why put words in your mouth when you have your own:

Originally Posted by Russ B

So why is it none of the Christians I know (or have met at various rallies - thousands in attendance) have anti-Semitic views?

Do you really not know why in general people don't hold anti-semitic views these days?

I shall, although I'll put it in context in the way you have failed to do. You know, in the grander scheme of things, which is what I originally said. You must have missed it. Compared to total populations.

There is no context where 6 million murdered can be considered anything but a massive figure. Well, not to any decent person anyway.

I'm aware of that, it's just most of Xaccers put forward seemed to be aimed at Christians so the question was pointed at him.

Oh look, this is where you say you're aware of the reasons mentioned in the wiki article

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Yet you claim to be aware of the reasons behind anti-semitism via the wiki article, which makes clear the role of christianity and the church in the persecution of Jews for deicide.
So which is it? You're not aware of the accusation of deicide and were fibbing about being aware of the reason mentioned in the wiki article, or you were aware but are fibbing about it?

I was aware of the wiki article being listed, I just wanted to know YOUR views.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Someone who follows christianity is not the church are they?

I don't know Xaccers you tell me. Many people think the Pope speaks for 'the church' when he doesn't.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

So you chose to ignore them then. No change there.

Thos in glass houses....

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Why put words in your mouth when you have your own:

You're making things up again Xaccers.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Do you really not know why in general people don't hold anti-semitic views these days?

I'm fully aware of it. I was asking you why none of the Christians I know or have met have anti-semitic views if anti-semitism is based in Christianity as you say.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

There is no context where 6 million murdered can be considered anything but a massive figure. Well, not to any decent person anyway.

6 million, while a huge atrocity, is a small number compared to a world population of 5 billion. That's what people call context.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Oh look, this is where you say you're aware of the reasons mentioned in the wiki article

Really Xaccers, really

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

6 million, while a huge atrocity, is a small number compared to a world population of 5 billion. That's what people call context.

Really Xaccers, really

Oh come on Russ, the context this thread is in is about Jews, not world population. 6 million in itself is a lot of people to have killed, 6 million in a population of 20 million - or whatever the population at the time was (jews not global) is even worse.

By putting the death of 6 million followers of one religion/race/whatever in the context of the world population totally demeans it.

Its like saying to an animal lover, "sod 50 percent of tigers being wiped out, theres millions of animals on this planet"

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Oh come on Russ, the context this thread is in is about Jews, not world population. 6 million in itself is a lot of people to have killed, 6 million in a population of 20 million - or whatever the population at the time was (jews not global) is even worse.

By putting the death of 6 million followers of one religion/race/whatever in the context of the world population totally demeans it.

Its like saying to an animal lover, "sod 50 percent of tigers being wiped out, theres millions of animals on this planet"

I know what I'm trying to say however I'm having difficulty getting the point across. I'm not trying to play down the seriousness of 6 million people being wiped out in 4 years - no sane person would do that.

My points are being distorted and what I'm trying to say is getting lost - but I'll make it very clear that the deaths from the holocaust were horrific on a massive scale.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I know what I'm trying to say however I'm having difficulty getting the point across. I'm not trying to play down the seriousness of 6 million people being wiped out in 4 years - no sane person would do that.

My points are being distorted and what I'm trying to say is getting lost - but I'll make it very clear that the deaths from the holocaust were horrific on a massive scale.

Russ what you said was :

Originally Posted by Russ B

Roses are reddish
Violets are blueish
If it wasn't for Jesus
We'd all be Jewish.

Seems like the Jews have always been society's whipping boys. I'm glad to see their population rising, although I didn't realise that the holocaust had made such a dent on their numbers (yes 6 million is a lot but in the grander scheme of things it's not what you'd call a massive figure).

Which you have tried to justify later by saying lets put it into context of world population.

I find that quite distasteful personally, and however you paint it, a statement like that trivialises the holocaust. Its like saying so what if a child gets abducted and killed, in the context of x billion children in the world thats not so bad.

Your post totally contradicts what you said when you write :

Originally Posted by Russ B

I know what I'm trying to say however I'm having difficulty getting the point across. I'm not trying to play down the seriousness of 6 million people being wiped out in 4 years - no sane person would do that.

My points are being distorted and what I'm trying to say is getting lost - but I'll make it very clear that the deaths from the holocaust were horrific on a massive scale.

We are not distorting what you say, there is no other way to interpret what you have said either. You try to backtrack out of what you said but maybe you should have applied more thought in your original posting.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

For all the people who come out and say nasty things about the Jewish people, is totally a disgrace, l have the highest respect for these people, especially after what they have gone through, over the years, maybe those people who condemn them, should be forced to sit down and watch, films such as Auswicth, and Sobibor, and say that, as these films ARE, true, and l recently spoke to someone, who came back from Poland, and he went there, and he told me, he can still feel for them, so am not saying anymore on the subject, and l am totally astonished that the CFteam, have allowed this thread, to go on the way it has.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

We are not distorting what you say, there is no other way to interpret what you have said either. You try to backtrack out of what you said but maybe you should have applied more thought in your original posting.

I've not said you are distorting what I'm saying. I said I'm having difficulty in getting my point across and as a result it's getting distorted. Neither am I backtracking anything. And you should know me better than to think I'm playing down the seriousness of the holocaust.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I've not said you are distorting what I'm saying. I said I'm having difficulty in getting my point across and as a result it's getting distorted. Neither am I backtracking anything. And you should know me better than to think I'm playing down the seriousness of the holocaust.

I know that you're an intelligent bloke, and Im quite suprised that a person with your intelligence would post something like that. For a minute I thought, ken's muslim mate, Al Qardawi (or however its spelt) had joined the forum!

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I've not said you are distorting what I'm saying. I said I'm having difficulty in getting my point across and as a result it's getting distorted. Neither am I backtracking anything. And you should know me better than to think I'm playing down the seriousness of the holocaust.

Ok then. Sit back, and write down what the point is you are trying to get across.

Look, I don't see anything in Russ D's post to suggest he was trying to down play the Holocaust, seriously. I think he was just saying that he did not know how close the holocaust came to wiping out a entire race. He's comment about 6 million 'not being a lot on the grand scheme of things' suggests that he thought the amount of Jewish people at the time was a lot larger than it was and hence although 6 million is a lot, he didn’t know how big a percentage of the population that related too. Poor choice of words though, but that’s all.

Traxdata's post was genuinely sick though, and I think we can all see that. There is really not much to say other than that it was a vile, anti-Semitic post from which we can judge a lot about the personality of the poster.

There were a couple of others and in light of that I am not sure why so much attention is being placed on Russ D’s post for what seems just a misunderstanding and is obviously not anti-Semitic.

By the way, IMO, The reasons why there is anti-Semitism exists is partly from some people who follow Christianity who seem to have a problem with the death of Jesus and the ‘Jewish Involvement’ but there are all sorts of allegations (lies) made against them. These are obviously just accusations anti-Semitic morons use to try and justify their illogical and despicable views. I don’t think we need to pay much attention to them personally, since they are obviously incapable of intelligent thought and we won’t be able to even begin to comprehend their warped ignorant minds.