Variety.Com: VM have Sky 'rattled'

[punky]

Ahh, that old trick. Trying to discrediting his opinions because he's a SKy employee.

Originally Posted by Stu

That doesn't sugest they are scared. Bullying maybe, but not scared.

Calling it bullying is a bit harsh. This is business. The point of a negotiation is to bargain the price down. However, considering VM dropped the price of one of their key leverages down to a 1/4 of its original price, smacks of desperation to me

[Downloads]

Originally Posted by Gavin

Ahh, that old trick. Trying to discrediting his opinions because he's a SKy employee.

No it's not a trick, it's as stupid as saying people use Virgin because they have a red logo and use Uma for advertising.

That's insulting. I thought you might have noticed that.

I would have respected his opinion until he used tripe like that.

[Stuart]

Actually, my bullying comment was a bit harsh.. It might be bullying, but I am pretty sure any business (virgin included) would do it given half the chance..

Anyhow, one thing seems clear. Whichever company wins any battle between the two, the consumer should do well..

[punky]

Originally Posted by Toto

If they can up the anti also against Sky's not so glittering move into Broadband,

Well according to dslzone, they disagree. Even ADSLGuide shows mixed results, especially in the much-lauded CS. Hardly conclusive.

VM will have done themselves proud in pulling their former company out of the quicksand of poor customer service onto the firm ground of customer excellence, as is expected of a Virgin branded company.

Like Virgin.net? (Funny Virgin.net's CS can't even Spell Branson correctly.) or Virgin.net (part 2) or Tribe?

Like it or not Gavin, Sky have made MUCH more noise about their offerings since RB and Virgin came into the fray.

Thus ends the debate then with well documented evidence. "Like it or not?" You don't understand, There's nothing to like or not-like. I really don't care either way. I don't care who'se advertising what or who runs what. VM, like ntl was, is just a media company. Much like Sky. It has a new CEO. That's it. I really can't get as excited as you about it.

I'll re-state it again before I called another puppet of Murdoch, I have VM TV, BB and phone.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Downloads

I think you must think people here are thick then. You just like to think people are sold on this stuff. People are actually sold on the fact that Virgin can offer better deals than Sky. In my area that's the case anyway. They also offer supperior VoD, a better box and better broadband on the whole.

Why would i stop to think about how in debt Virgin are?? Does anyone stop to think how Man U are in debt whilst they are winning the league?

I think you must be sold on Sky being a Sky Employee and believe everything they tell you.

Being in debt is all very well if you are winning and can quickly turn a loss back into a profit.

I think all of these Sky vs Virgin threads are getting a little out of control, with people taking sides and hurlling abuse at the 'other side'. This is silly, whomever you 'support' will not thank you for doing so. So short of feeling smug that you might happen to be on the 'winning' side, whatever that is, and getting one up over a fellow forum memeber is all you will be able to obtain.

Personally, I prefer to maintain my grip on reality. Whomever I subscribe to right now doesn't automatically get my loyalty for any longer than I personally deem suitable. I'm buying a service, not planning the invasion of Poland, and I'll get behind whoever gives me a combination (in no particular order) of the best products, range, service and price. End of.

Right now, and for many years past, cable has failed on each count. So why should it have changed now already? Which is not to say that it won't one day in the future of course.

[Carl J]

Originally Posted by Downloads

<snip>

Actually if I were speaking 100% for Sky I'd agree with you, but I don't Have you not noticed the hype monster working its' magic? It's the whole point of advertising you know. If no-one cares about the advertising then VM are wasting their money doing it

Customers should do pretty well out of all of this and already are, which is a good thing. We'll see if VM can fix their numerous issues, won't happen overnight though.

If one were really as vastly superior to the other as you mention then one wouldn't have any customers while the other would be laughing all the way to the bank, no?

[Downloads]

Originally Posted by Carl J

Actually if I were speaking 100% for Sky I'd agree with you, but I don't Have you not noticed the hype monster working its' magic? It's the whole point of advertising you know. If no-one cares about the advertising then VM are wasting their money doing it

Customers should do pretty well out of all of this and already are, which is a good thing. We'll see if VM can fix their numerous issues, won't happen overnight though.

If one were really as vastly superior to the other as you mention then one wouldn't have any customers while the other would be laughing all the way to the bank, no?

Now that i totally agree with, on this or one of the other hundred VM ones i must have posted on i stated that Virgin don't offer all the best deals but for people to Simply say Sky are the best is a lie.

---------- Post added at 07:39 ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 ----------

Originally Posted by andygrif

Right now, and for many years past, cable has failed on each count. So why should it have changed now already? Which is not to say that it won't one day in the future of course.

Again i don't disagree with most of what you say, but what you are saying is from a personal stand-point, i've had nothing but good Customer Service and am given everything i am told i am going to get... why would i moan?

I on the otherhand accept that other people have had bad experiences etc, so can't say Virgin is the best company in the Country, just depends on what you are looking, whether you get it, how much you want to pay for the service and how they treat you.

---------- Post added at 07:45 ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Gavin

Thus ends the debate then with well documented evidence. "Like it or not?" You don't understand, There's nothing to like or not-like. I really don't care either way. I don't care who'se advertising what or who runs what. VM, like ntl was, is just a media company. Much like Sky. It has a new CEO. That's it. I really can't get as excited as you about it.

I think if you can't see that things have already started to improve then that would have to be a very biased person regardless of what services they had from what company. He didn't say they had improved into the best company, but they HAVE improved. Wait times have reduced, more content deals signed, more packages released to offer customers better value and services and no extra cost, a new channel (new idea anyway) to watch VoD, a V+ box.

Surely someone would have to be very blinkered if they wern't considered improvements? It's not just a new CEO.

[NTLVictim]

I've got VM BB, Sky, and BT.

I therefore declare myself an independent state.

Joking aside, I've had bad experiences with Sky AND ntl/vm, I think at the moment they are as bad as each other.

I've also noticed BT have quietly been getting better....

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Downloads

Again i don't disagree with most of what you say, but what you are saying is from a personal stand-point, i've had nothing but good Customer Service and am given everything i am told i am going to get... why would i moan?

I on the otherhand accept that other people have had bad experiences etc, so can't say Virgin is the best company in the Country, just depends on what you are looking, whether you get it, how much you want to pay for the service and how they treat you..

All any of us can talk from is our own personal experiences. You're saying you've had great service and I am genuinely happy that you have. But just becuase I think cable is dreadful doesn't mean I'm swinging from the turretts pontificating about how great Sky is.

But I shout about how awful I think cable is, due to the awful service I recievd from them for many years.

Originally Posted by NTLVictim

I've also noticed BT have quietly been getting better....

I do agree with this. I was very pleasantly surprised how good their service was in comparison with ntl. They have been efficient, they write you a confirmation letter every time you change something, they give you service status updates via text and the staff I've had to deal with have been polite and do their job - I couldn't care less where they are based if they sort my problem out - and they do. I can't say that about my experiences with ntl I'm afraid.

[themelon]

I have found BT as awful as ever recently. Admittedly I have only dealt with the business side in the past year but that has been terrible. When ordering they cocked up the order, when fitting they sent the wrong van without a lift, and refused to install where I wanted 'because it was too difficult'. The wiring inside is a mess the bx is stuck to the wall not even level. The ADSL Service keeps disconnecting for no reason and BT Say they can do nothing and we should contact our provide, who say to contact BT in the end our speed has had to reduced to 1.5Mbs despite being less than 3 miles from the exchange. Still appalling in my eyes!

I havent and wont let them anywhere near my house in a long time, since the persitent crackling lines (with no fault) and abysmal broadband speeds.

My mums ADSL service now won't connect the familiar pass to pilar to post and back of blame is now going on. Pipex say its a BT issue, BT say its a Pipex issue, a week without ADSL and my mum is none the wiser. Looks as poor as ever to be honest!

Everyone has their own experience, but most companies in this country offer poor customer service full stop.

As for the Sky and Virgin Media debate, I cant see why Sky wants more for Sky One, FACT is viewing figures are reducing, the channel has more competition and is becoming less popular. Thefore the channel commands a lower price simple as any idiot (except Murdoch) can see that. Sky is talking from its backside if it says otherwise!

It is Skys problem if they want to pay excessive amounts for import shows with no original programming, Virgin Media should not fund this. The Terrestrial channels are the most watched on all platforms, the rest are thinly spread Sky One viewing figures are way below 800000 and dropping all the time, with PVRs and VOD people are watching what they want when they want and not second rate television which they may have settled for in the past. I say if Virgin Media cant get a deal at the price they want they should drop Sky One like a hot potatoe its only 1 average channel that possibly 20% to 30% of cable subscribers watch every now and then it WILL NOT be missed.

I would rather Virgin Media invest in more VOD Content this is the future, Linear channels like Sky One are dying a death as there is no flexibility in viewing.

[NTLVictim]

"It is Skys problem if they want to pay excessive amounts for import shows with no original programming, Virgin Media should not fund this."

Amen to that!

Perhaps VM should encourage home-grown stuff like channel 4 do, that would separate them from trailer trash TV nicely..They'll have to dump the "auction" channels though, it gives them a low-rent image.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Anyhow, one thing seems clear. Whichever company wins any battle between the two, the consumer should do well..

Here, here

[punky]

Originally Posted by Downloads

I think if you can't see that things have already started to improve then that would have to be a very biased person regardless of what services they had from what company. He didn't say they had improved into the best company, but they HAVE improved. Wait times have reduced, more content deals signed, more packages released to offer customers better value and services and no extra cost, a new channel (new idea anyway) to watch VoD, a V+ box.

Surely someone would have to be very blinkered if they wern't considered improvements? It's not just a new CEO.

Right, because I don't agree with 100% of what you say, and because I don't believe Branson taking over ntl:telewest is a significant event in my life, then I am "blinkered" and "biased". Hmmmmm. Let's just leave there, shall we?

[Carl J]

Originally Posted by themelon

I have found BT as awful as ever recently. Admittedly I have only dealt with the business side in the past year but that has been terrible. When ordering they cocked up the order, when fitting they sent the wrong van without a lift, and refused to install where I wanted 'because it was too difficult'. The wiring inside is a mess the bx is stuck to the wall not even level.

Not good.

The ADSL Service keeps disconnecting for no reason and BT Say they can do nothing and we should contact our provide, who say to contact BT in the end our speed has had to reduced to 1.5Mbs despite being less than 3 miles from the exchange. Still appalling in my eyes!

True that your provider should be interfacing with BT to fix these things, not you. Providers do seem to love passing the buck to BT though.

3 miles from the exchange is a long way, in a lot of countries you wouldn't even have broadband.

My mums ADSL service now won't connect the familiar pass to pilar to post and back of blame is now going on. Pipex say its a BT issue, BT say its a Pipex issue, a week without ADSL and my mum is none the wiser. Looks as poor as ever to be honest!

Again Pipex should be liaising with BT to resolve the issue. All this said it's Pipex, and I think that's enough said. Their CS is appauling, their broadband also pretty poor due to going mass market and cheap, and giving The Hoff the upgrade cash.

As for the Sky and Virgin Media debate, I cant see why Sky wants more for Sky One, FACT is viewing figures are reducing, the channel has more competition and is becoming less popular. Thefore the channel commands a lower price simple as any idiot (except Murdoch) can see that. Sky is talking from its backside if it says otherwise!

We don't know who is asking for what to be honest, though it is true Sky One's viewing figures have dropped. Unless you know the exact amounts that Sky are asking for, etc, neither you nor I can claim that Sky want more for Sky One.

It is Skys problem if they want to pay excessive amounts for import shows with no original programming, Virgin Media should not fund this. The Terrestrial channels are the most watched on all platforms, the rest are thinly spread Sky One viewing figures are way below 800000 and dropping all the time, with PVRs and VOD people are watching what they want when they want and not second rate television which they may have settled for in the past. I say if Virgin Media cant get a deal at the price they want they should drop Sky One like a hot potatoe its only 1 average channel that possibly 20% to 30% of cable subscribers watch every now and then it WILL NOT be missed.

You really don't like Sky do you?

I would rather Virgin Media invest in more VOD Content this is the future, Linear channels like Sky One are dying a death as there is no flexibility in viewing.

The stats say you are wrong: http://www.barb.co.uk/viewingsummary...viewingsummary

I see no huge drop in viewing on the linear channels there.

[NTLVictim]

I don't think they've improved yet, they have too much ntl baggage, what we have at the moment is show, not go.
I honestly hope they prove me wrong for one simple reason.

When one competitor in any field raises their game by a significant amount, the rest must follow or lose. I'm not just talking Sky, but BT and the standalone ISP's as well.

That means that whoever you stay with out of loyalty or past experiences, or whoever you move to, EVERYONE on here will reap the benefit in one way or another.

As long as it happens....