Vote 2005, Week 1

[iadom]

I am self employed, since this government came to power they have decimated the value of my pension, even that crook Robert Maxwell only robbed his companies pension funds of around £400 million, over the last eight years Gordon Brown has taken £40 billion out of private pension funds, someone retiring today would get a pension worth around a 1/4 of the amount that a person with identical savings would have received eight years ago. , the tax take directly and indirectly has increased way above the rate of inflation and I feel as though I am staggering from one tax bill to the next. Although they have thrown many millions of ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£ÃƒÆ ’‚£'s at health/education/police etc, etc, they have, by their ingrained ability to create totally meaningless jobs, made little or no difference to the problems in those services.

Labour are not a 'Tax & Spend' party, they are and always have been a 'Tax & Waste' party. Anyone like me, who has lived through past Labour administrations will be well aware of this.

The relative financial calm of the last few years was mainly brought about as a result of policies put in place before Labour came to power, allied to outside influences.
I have always found the Liberals and whoever the have linked up with in the past in an attempt to gain power, Labour, Social Democrats, Democrats etc, as woolly and over idealistic. They made a complete mess of their short time in control of the local council, however I do think that local income tax as opposed to council tax is a good idea.
Sadly I do not think that Mr Howard is likely to inspire enough people to make a difference.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by skunk4u

Are you telling us that you never moan about the party YOU vote for?

erm.....I think you're missing the point, not only of what I said, but of democracy generally:

If you don't vote, how is it OK to moan about who's in power? If you do vote that gives you (IMHO) much more of a right to criticise anyone involved in the process.

People that don't vote are opting out of the process.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Missing out on the spirit of a discussion board are we?

Not at all. I think we can all have a sensible discussion about politics without necessarily nailing our political colours to the wall. There are elements within the party I will vote for that I don't necessarily agree with, there are elements of the parties that I wouldn't vote for that I do agree with - and that's all good for debate and discussion - but I don't particularly wish to tell the world who I will vote for.

Originally Posted by skunk4u

Do we think Mr Howard will make a good leader? I think not. He simply does not have the balls, like Hague a bit of a wimp.

In the interests of balance, he has fired two of his shadow cabinet in the last few months for not towing the party-line.

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

I'm not sure that I'll be able to vote, due to house moves and forgetting to register my name won't be added to the electoral register until May 3rd. Not sure if that makes me eligible to vote or not or if if I am whether I'll get my voter card in time

You just need the proof of address in the place where you think you're registered (probably your last house) and turn up at the relevant polling station. If in doubt give your local council a call over the next couple of weeks to clarify the position and where you should rock up to.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

To all those here who don't want to vote. Please reconsider your stance. There are millions in the world who aren't allowed to vote. Many, have died trying to gain the right to vote. You owe it to them to vote if you can........

I think you summed up what I was trying to say...just far more eloquently than I did!

Originally Posted by Russ D

However Charles Kennedy would have to go: I don't want a Scottish PM.

That's a pretty baseless statement...even though Kennedy might represent Inverness, he probably spends as little time there as Blair does in Sedgefield.

Don't forget, we also have a Scottish Chancellor, are you against that too?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by andygrif

erm.....I think you're missing the point, not only of what I said, but of democracy generally:

If you don't vote, how is it OK to moan about who's in power? If you do vote that gives you (IMHO) much more of a right to criticise anyone involved in the process.

People that don't vote are opting out of the process.

I tend to agree, but what about people who feel there are no parties worth voting for?
Personally I would spoil my ballot paper (if only that could be worked into the democratic system as "non of the above")
But what do you think that people in that situation should do? Spoil paper or not bother to vote?

Don't matter if we moan or not non voters or voters cuz whoever wins we are stuck with like it or not lol

Originally Posted by Millay

OK so it has been announced, tony blair is giving his speal to the cameras.

Who are you going to vote for this year, or are you activly going to choose not to vote? If not why not...

aaahhh time for another pole.

Yep! definitely time for another pole with which I can beat the local useless Tory incumbant of 30 years off my doorstep if he has the cheek to knock on my door.

Peter Viggers is the most useless MP in Parliament.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Peter Viggers is the most useless MP in Parliament.

i doubt it, anyone would struggle to beat Helen Clarke for incompetence. She even broke down in a local hotel claiming someone had stolen her purse on a GNER train. It was investigated only to find the purse under the seat she had sat in during the journey. Now i know its not nice to loose something like that, but to publically say it was stolen with no evidence is outrageous.

Oh sorry i forgot, thats what politicans do, they make statements based on absolutely no facts at all.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Yep! definitely time for another pole with which I can beat the local useless Tory incumbant of 30 years off my doorstep if he has the cheek to knock on my door.

Peter Viggers is the most useless MP in Parliament.

Why is he useless? I'd love to know.

Here's some of the things he's apparently been involved with:

Asylum

Peter has played a key part in the campaign to prevent the former HMS Daedalus site at Lee-on-the-Solent from becoming the home of an accommodation centre for asylum seekers. Together with local residents, he has argued that the quiet village on the outskirts of Gosport is wholly unsuitable as a location for such a centre.

Royal Hospital Haslar

As the hospital celebrates its 250th anniversary this year, the campaign to retain Haslar at the heart of local healthcare provision continues. The decision to close Haslar came about as a result of a review of Defence Medical Services in 1997-1998. However, Haslarââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s caseload is 80% civilian and it is heavily relied upon by the local community. The hospital has served the civilian population of the area, and also the Army, Navy and Air Force, for many years.

A Private Finance Initiative is progressing for the redevelopment of the Queen Alexandra site in Cosham, Portsmouth, and it is anticipated that once this is settled, the longer-term future of healthcare provision can be addressed.

The official Government position remains that Haslar will close in 2007. However, the hospital has impressive facilities to offer, including superb diagnostic imaging, MRI scanners and ultrasound equipment, and Peter will continue to lead the campaign to secure greater use of the facilities and long-term survival for the hospital.

Education

Peter is keen to support the bids from Bay House, Brune Park and Bridgemary Schools for Specialist College status. In fact, he has already helped Bridgemary School to raise the £50,000 needed to put forward their Sports College bid. When completed, the school will provide top class sports facilities for use not only by pupils but also by the wider community.

Community Pharmacie

Peter has raised concerns about the threat to our local pharmacies, following the Office of Fair Tradingââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s report in January, which recommended the abolition of all entry controls in the pharmacy sector of UK business. Petitions and representations have flooded in to Peter since the proposals were announced.

The proposals, which would result in an increase in the number of out-of-town supermarket pharmacies, would threaten to put neighbourhood pharmacies out of business. Community pharmacies are vital to the local community, particularly for the elderly and those who are unable to travel far. Peter believes that the most vulnerable in our community rely heavily upon these local services and that to place their viability at risk is unacceptable.

Dentistry

Peter has received an enormous number of complaints from local residents regarding the lack of NHS dental provision in the Gosport area. Many local dentists have opted to turn to private practice, as they do not believe they are adequately reimbursed by Government to cover the cost of NHS treatments. This has left patients either having to pay for private care, or to travel out of the area for NHS treatment elsewhere.


How Peter Viggers voted on key issues in the 2001-2005 parliament (From Public Whip) :

Moderately against introducing foundation hospitals.
Very strongly against introducing student top-up fees.
Moderately against Labour's anti-terrorism laws.
Moderately for the Iraq war.
A mixture of for and against introducing ID cards.
Very strongly against the fox hunting ban.

Spoke in 37 debates in the last year †� 134th out of 659 MPs.
Asked 43 written questions in the last year †� 269th out of 659 MPs.
Replied within 14 days to 53% of messages sent via FaxYourMP.com during 2004 †� 386th out of 590 MPs.

I wonder if we could have some agreement in this topic that it doesnt become too negitive and if you are going to make a comment (i.e labour just waste money) that you prove/justify it. It seems unfair that people can make general statements (followed, of course by the smile). As this may get heated it would be a good way to keep the topic smooth and polite.

Also, it may sound stupid, but has anyone noticed how provoking the following similes can be ? I suggest that we refrain from using these as they will just help add to the anger and in a topic like this we really need to do anything we can to lower the heat. Finally I just wonder if we could be less negitive about the partys as well? Labour have done some good stuff, Torys do make some good points, and so do the lib dems. It would be good to point out that there are some good points to all 3 as well as mentioning the bad.
__________________

By the way, I will be voting labour

[me283]

Originally Posted by gary_580

i doubt it, anyone would struggle to beat Helen Clarke for incompetence. She even broke down in a local hotel claiming someone had stolen her purse on a GNER train. It was investigated only to find the purse under the seat she had sat in during the journey. Now i know its not nice to loose something like that, but to publically say it was stolen with no evidence is outrageous.

Oh sorry i forgot, thats what politicans do, they make statements based on absolutely no facts at all.

Come off it... neither of you can have heard of Fiona Mactaggart... mind you, lots of the people in Slough haven't either!

I can see a new thread arising from this..."least effective MP"...

[Russ]

Originally Posted by andygrif

but I don't particularly wish to tell the world who I will vote for.

Well keep out of the thread then

Originally Posted by andygrif

That's a pretty baseless statement...even though Kennedy might represent Inverness, he probably spends as little time there as Blair does in Sedgefield.

Erm...only it's not baseless as I've given my reasons.

Originally Posted by andygrif

Don't forget, we also have a Scottish Chancellor, are you against that too?

No - actually read my post and you'll see why.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Why is he useless? I'd love to know.

Here's some of the things he's apparently been involved with:

Asylum

Peter has played a key part in the campaign to prevent the former HMS Daedalus site at Lee-on-the-Solent from becoming the home of an accommodation centre for asylum seekers. Together with local residents, he has argued that the quiet village on the outskirts of Gosport is wholly unsuitable as a location for such a centre.

Royal Hospital Haslar

As the hospital celebrates its 250th anniversary this year, the campaign to retain Haslar at the heart of local healthcare provision continues. The decision to close Haslar came about as a result of a review of Defence Medical Services in 1997-1998. However, Haslarââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s caseload is 80% civilian and it is heavily relied upon by the local community. The hospital has served the civilian population of the area, and also the Army, Navy and Air Force, for many years.

A Private Finance Initiative is progressing for the redevelopment of the Queen Alexandra site in Cosham, Portsmouth, and it is anticipated that once this is settled, the longer-term future of healthcare provision can be addressed.

The official Government position remains that Haslar will close in 2007. However, the hospital has impressive facilities to offer, including superb diagnostic imaging, MRI scanners and ultrasound equipment, and Peter will continue to lead the campaign to secure greater use of the facilities and long-term survival for the hospital.

Education

Peter is keen to support the bids from Bay House, Brune Park and Bridgemary Schools for Specialist College status. In fact, he has already helped Bridgemary School to raise the £50,000 needed to put forward their Sports College bid. When completed, the school will provide top class sports facilities for use not only by pupils but also by the wider community.

Community Pharmacie

Peter has raised concerns about the threat to our local pharmacies, following the Office of Fair Tradingââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s report in January, which recommended the abolition of all entry controls in the pharmacy sector of UK business. Petitions and representations have flooded in to Peter since the proposals were announced.

The proposals, which would result in an increase in the number of out-of-town supermarket pharmacies, would threaten to put neighbourhood pharmacies out of business. Community pharmacies are vital to the local community, particularly for the elderly and those who are unable to travel far. Peter believes that the most vulnerable in our community rely heavily upon these local services and that to place their viability at risk is unacceptable.

Dentistry

Peter has received an enormous number of complaints from local residents regarding the lack of NHS dental provision in the Gosport area. Many local dentists have opted to turn to private practice, as they do not believe they are adequately reimbursed by Government to cover the cost of NHS treatments. This has left patients either having to pay for private care, or to travel out of the area for NHS treatment elsewhere.


How Peter Viggers voted on key issues in the 2001-2005 parliament (From Public Whip) :

Moderately against introducing foundation hospitals.
Very strongly against introducing student top-up fees.
Moderately against Labour's anti-terrorism laws.
Moderately for the Iraq war.
A mixture of for and against introducing ID cards.
Very strongly against the fox hunting ban.

Spoke in 37 debates in the last year †� 134th out of 659 MPs.
Asked 43 written questions in the last year †� 269th out of 659 MPs.
Replied within 14 days to 53% of messages sent via FaxYourMP.com during 2004 †� 386th out of 590 MPs.

Oh you haven't been reading his press releases that he shoves out every quarter have you?.He was absolutely useless in the Haslar fiasco and now the local hospital authority has opted to have our A&E unit shoved into the War Memorial hospital instead.Lot of help with that Peter...That's the biggest mistake of all.Hasler's A&E was much superior and that was the battle to win.That would keep Hasler open for sure.

As for the Asylum issue well I think it's best to remember that some of knew that it would come to nothing because it would cost too much too get Deadelus fit and ready for any asylum seekers.However a section of the community got all rabid about it and Viggers joined in.He shows up for every photo opportunity he can as well.

However I dare say his track record has improved lately after all there's been an expected election looming as the year has gone by.

In the past his attendance at the House of Commons has been disgusting in comparison to other MP's.I can remember one year he was somewhere in the 500's in times of attendance at the house.Mind possibly he was down in Gosport but I doubt it.I've never actually laid direct eyes on the man and I've been a constituent of his for the last 30 years.

Oh and I never forgave him for not speaking up in defence of making Gosport a special area when all the Naval redundancies were taking place.He was emphatically against it.It would have meant that the area would have got some financial backing to help those who were made redundant and to encourage new business in the area.As a penisular town we needed all the financial help we could get.

Ah well he will no doubt get back in because he's that nice man who turns up for the photo's whenever something major is taking place...

I'd just like a change...


Oh as for who I'll be voting for..Well I guess I'll wait and see who actually stands.It's unlikely we will get much choice.

[ZrByte]

Whats an honest/competant politician? I have yet to see one and I have been trying

[MovedGoalPosts]

I'm very tempted by our local Monster Raving Loony Candidate's policies. A selection:

Abolish the 1p coin and save the Royal Mint a fortune. Instead create a 99p coin which would be much more useful

Any politician that wants to start a war, ship them to the country concerned with a bag of conkers. They can then see if they can conker the country concerned

Lets have no more talk of us joining the euro, a flawed currency. Get Europe to adopt the pound instead

Help for small businesses. A free extension cord will be provided to plug into a nearby lampost

I actually like the 99p coin idea!

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I tend to agree, but what about people who feel there are no parties worth voting for?
Personally I would spoil my ballot paper (if only that could be worked into the democratic system as "non of the above")
But what do you think that people in that situation should do? Spoil paper or not bother to vote?

I know what you're saying, but I do not believe there is never anyone to vote for. We've all said, "they're all as bad as each other" at some point - and to some degree we're right, but there has to be a lesser of all evils in every area. What the particular circumstances were in that area at that time would sway my decision as to whom it was I voted for (if I felt indifferent, which I don't).

I do think it's about time though that we had a "none of the above" box to select. If nothing else it should be used as statistical data for how cheesed off with the selection we are in that area.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Well keep out of the thread then

How rude.

As I said, we can all discuss politics without stating who we're voting for.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Erm...only it's not baseless as I've given my reasons.

But your reasons are baseless. You might say that Tony Blair panders to the people of Sedgefield, but I doubt that he does. I think the days when we say that it's democracy based on accents are long gone.

And where would you draw the line? Born in Wales but lived in England since the age of two? As I said in my post, I doubt Kennedy spends much more time in Inverness than Blair does in Sedgefield......or comes to think about than Howard does in Folkstone or Kilroy-Silk does in the real world!

Originally Posted by Russ D

It's for similar reasons that I believe Labour were never going to be more than also-rans with Kinnock in control.

I think that's probably less to do with Kinnock being Welsh and more to do with Kinnock being an idiot ...something most Labourites would possibly agree with too.

Originally Posted by Damien

I actually like the 99p coin idea!

I think that's genius!