Attention-All NTL Staff.

[Womble]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Seeing I'm going to be made redundant in 2 weeks time then yes it does take my mind off the company I work for.

Sorry to hear that, good luck- There is life after ntl.......... I hope!

[Chrysalis]

dezzo sorry to hear and no problem if it helps you be happy

[evilind]

I too am in a union where I work and they dont seem to have much clout. I can never quite forget that the company is paying the wages of the union reps that we have and when it comes to crunchtime for whatever be it wage rises etc the union always seem to agree with the company in the end. I am sure that my union is simply humoured by my firm to be seen to be doing the done thing.(the firm that is!). They're subscription I also notice seems to be creeping up towards the 10 pound a month mark too but we never seem to get any notification of this. I think I am going to unsubscribe because lets face it, if my company makes me redundant theres not a lot the union can do!

[kissmygaseye]

Originally Posted by evilind

I too am in a union where I work and they dont seem to have much clout. I can never quite forget that the company is paying the wages of the union reps that we have and when it comes to crunchtime for whatever be it wage rises etc the union always seem to agree with the company in the end. I am sure that my union is simply humoured by my firm to be seen to be doing the done thing.(the firm that is!). They're subscription I also notice seems to be creeping up towards the 10 pound a month mark too but we never seem to get any notification of this. I think I am going to unsubscribe because lets face it, if my company makes me redundant theres not a lot the union can do!

Each to their own i suppose. The 'company' pays my wage as well but it doesn't stop me from fighting and winning cases that cost the 'company' money. It doesn't stop me from making sure my membership gets a decent payrise each year. It hasn't stopped me from making sure the 'company' pays over and above the statutory redundancy pay. It hasn't stopped me from getting extended benifits for people being made redundant. But of course, I've only done this for Union members. Because that's what they pay their subs for.

Unions have been responsible for Pay increases, better conditions, shorter hours, paid holidays etc. They don’t just happen. Neither are they freely volunteered by a ‘charitable’ employer. They are all won by union negotiators. You may be dissatisfied with your pay – but, think what it would be like if there was no union to press for improvements.

A union is only as strong as it's membership. If you have many active members the 'company' take notice. If you don't, then, why should they bother? Because the people who work for the 'company' seem not to be worried......

[Russ]

Unions, in my experience are a pile of horse ****. Not worth the bother if you ask me. Too many self-important busybodies.

[johnwileqs]

got my welcome letter today from the cwu. it's worth £4.99 just to have someone for advice if needed. could you imagine the look on my managers face if i asked for the union rep to sit in on my next appraisal etc..

[Rik]

When I worked for BT our union rep in the CWU done a bloody good job!
Herself and the centre manager hated each others guts!! which I guess is a good thing lol she did fight for us all.....

They still closed the centre down tho ;(
Good ol BT!!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by kissmygaseye

Each to their own i suppose. The 'company' pays my wage as well but it doesn't stop me from fighting and winning cases that cost the 'company' money. It doesn't stop me from making sure my membership gets a decent payrise each year. It hasn't stopped me from making sure the 'company' pays over and above the statutory redundancy pay. It hasn't stopped me from getting extended benifits for people being made redundant. But of course, I've only done this for Union members. Because that's what they pay their subs for.

Unions have been responsible for Pay increases, better conditions, shorter hours, paid holidays etc. They don’t just happen. Neither are they freely volunteered by a ‘charitable’ employer. They are all won by union negotiators. You may be dissatisfied with your pay – but, think what it would be like if there was no union to press for improvements.

A union is only as strong as it's membership. If you have many active members the 'company' take notice. If you don't, then, why should they bother? Because the people who work for the 'company' seem not to be worried......

I agree that in general a union is a very good thing, I joined a number of years ago whilst working for a company being taken over by another that wouldn't recognise unions. I felt it was well worth the money every month to think as an insurance policy should I become badly treated by the company, we had a few s**g off the unions and claiming they weren't helped by the union rep, but generally in those cases the individual more than deserved what the company did to them.

I do however think union negotiations for things like pay rises, are more effective in large organisations where there are large numbers of employees doing the same job. ie: Call centre operatives.
In a large company with a small number of employees carrying out a different task, your issues seem to get lost whilst negotiating issues for the majority. I was also in the situation a number of years ago where I was getting a good wage rise every year, as it was based on performance and productivity. Some of the lazy employees complained and the union got involved in the pay rise negotiations, that year the company spread the pay rise equally, I got the worst percentage rise I had ever had and the lazy ones got exactly the same.

That's my only criticism of unions being involved in negotiations of that sort, they tend to benefit the lazy employee at the expense of the good worker.

But in general to unions

[Womble]

Originally Posted by kissmygaseye

Each to their own i suppose. The 'company' pays my wage as well but it doesn't stop me from fighting and winning cases that cost the 'company' money. It doesn't stop me from making sure my membership gets a decent payrise each year. It hasn't stopped me from making sure the 'company' pays over and above the statutory redundancy pay. It hasn't stopped me from getting extended benifits for people being made redundant. But of course, I've only done this for Union members. Because that's what they pay their subs for.

Unions have been responsible for Pay increases, better conditions, shorter hours, paid holidays etc. They donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t just happen. Neither are they freely volunteered by a †˜charitableà¢ÃƒÆ’¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢ââ‚ ¬Å¾Ã‚¢ employer. They are all won by union negotiators. You may be dissatisfied with your pay †“ but, think what it would be like if there was no union to press for improvements.

A union is only as strong as it's membership. If you have many active members the 'company' take notice. If you don't, then, why should they bother? Because the people who work for the 'company' seem not to be worried......

Well Said!!

[injuneer]

I know of 3 or 4 cases within Ntl where the company has backed down once the CWU were involved, mainly health and safety issues. I think it's worth the subscription just to get the legal backing, should you need it. It's much harder for them to push you around if somone is quoting employment law to them. It's a pity they can't do much about pay until they become recognised, the pay scales in ntl are a joke, there are Senior engineers being paid less than engineers just because the latter joined the company at a later date on a higher basic wage and I'm talking quite large disparities here. The gap gets wider each year as well. Being a long serving employee counts for nowt, a bit like banks giving new savers higher interest rates than loyal customers. Ntl management don't understand the meaning of the word loyal.
I'm not a bean I'm a free man !!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by injuneer

I know of 3 or 4 cases within Ntl where the company has backed down once the CWU were involved, mainly health and safety issues. I think it's worth the subscription just to get the legal backing, should you need it. It's much harder for them to push you around if somone is quoting employment law to them. It's a pity they can't do much about pay until they become recognised, the pay scales in ntl are a joke, there are Senior engineers being paid less than engineers just because the latter joined the company at a later date on a higher basic wage and I'm talking quite large disparities here. The gap gets wider each year as well. Being a long serving employee counts for nowt, a bit like banks giving new savers higher interest rates than loyal customers. Ntl management don't understand the meaning of the word loyal.
I'm not a bean I'm a free man !!

The wages problem has been in the company from almost day one CableTel, I was working for a company bought out by CableTel shortly before CableTel bought NTL. My personal problem was having a job title "Central Support Engineer" that meant I was responsible for engineering support to all the small headends the company had around the company, and responsible for repairing headend/network equipment to component level, and designing new equipment to be used on the network.

The problem when CableTel/NTL took over was my pay, I was getting about 16K in those days and a non-sign written fully expensed company car. ntl found themselves in a dilema, they could either match my pay to other people carrying out similar tasks in the company by increasing my pay by at least 8K a year, or they could change my job title to Technician to match my pay.

I wont offer any prizes for guessing!
Yes they changed my job title to technician, and removed my staff status and eligibility to enhanced redundancy entitlement. I was the only employee out of 130 that was affected by the problem. I did complain and got told by an ntl manager, sign the new contract or be sacked. I did not sign and told him to do whatever he saw fit, this resulted in a 1K increase in my salary to compensate for loss of redundancy benefits.
I internally transfered shortly after into an ntl network Technician position, I was earning about the same as the other techs, but a few other techs who transfered under the same circumstances were earning a good 5K less than I was, and the only reason was because they transferred internaly and couldn't get more than a 5% rise.

The 5% rise caused many problems for the better employees looking for promotion, I applied for a more senior position and was successfull. I was up against a couple of external candidates and was told I was the best for the job, however the pay scale for the job started higher than the position I was already in, it would of meant a 7% rise just to get me on the bottom of the ladder, but on the other hand one of the number 2 choice for the job an external candidate could be taken on at the top of the pay scale.
This was the big problem, technicians/engineers were being taken on to replace the good ones leaving, and in many cases they were no better than the existing ones ntl already had. They were however being paid about 3K a year more to attract them to the company, and to rub salt in the wounds were being trained by the lower paid existing technicians.

I had a good friend who also transferred under similar circumstances, and he was getting about 4K less than the next lowest paid person in the department, his boss admitted that he was one of the best workers and tried his best by getting him regular 6 monthly rises in an attempt to bring him inot line with everyone else. This backfired when he had a change of manager and the new one went back on the promises and even threatened him with disciplinary action if he didn't take on extra duties such as call out. Things got very bitter as he was earning an about 7-8K a year less than the average person on the same grade, he refused to go on callout until it was sorted, as every hour of overtime would be paid at a lower rate than anyone else.

It got sorted when HR realised he would take it as far as he needed, and would not back down. I wrote a letter on his behalf, and HR who had previously told him "Sign the contract and we will sort the pay issue out seperately" had the cheek to say the pay was sorted and they had been working on it for a while.

The pay problem for Technicians/Engineers in the Headend/Switch/Field has always existed, I have always thought it's down to the way the company/senior managers (including HR) feels these employees are like something stuck to the bottom of their shoes.

[injuneer]

Originally Posted by Escapee

The pay problem for Technicians/Engineers in the Headend/Switch/Field has always existed, I have always thought it's down to the way the company/senior managers (including HR) feels these employees are like something stuck to the bottom of their shoes.

Cabletel always were poor payers, I worked for them for about a year & a Half on shift (the shift rates were cr*p but I needed a job quickly!) at the time the annual bonus was included as part of your salary, not extra to as it is today. So you couldn't really quote your annual salary because you didn't know what it would be!! I believe a lot of yankee companies used to operate like this at the time, Nynex for one. The major problems came when they bought the consumer Co division off Cable & Wireless Comms, C&W were really good payers (and still are), this meant a lot of ex CWC staff were being paid much more than "old" Ntl staff and that disparity still exists 4 years down the line!
The "management" didn't like staff to compare notes on salaries (and still don't), saying it was a private & personal matter for each individual, they seem to operate on a divide the staff and rule basis, they don't want to address the problem because they know it would cost them too much wonga.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by injuneer

Cabletel always were poor payers, I worked for them for about a year & a Half on shift (the shift rates were cr*p but I needed a job quickly!) at the time the annual bonus was included as part of your salary, not extra to as it is today. So you couldn't really quote your annual salary because you didn't know what it would be!! I believe a lot of yankee companies used to operate like this at the time, Nynex for one. The major problems came when they bought the consumer Co division off Cable & Wireless Comms, C&W were really good payers (and still are), this meant a lot of ex CWC staff were being paid much more than "old" Ntl staff and that disparity still exists 4 years down the line!
The "management" didn't like staff to compare notes on salaries (and still don't), saying it was a private & personal matter for each individual, they seem to operate on a divide the staff and rule basis, they don't want to address the problem because they know it would cost them too much wonga.

I remember the old bonus they used to call it PRP, when we asked questions about tax due to the government relaxation on PRP, we found out it was not an approved PRP so we had to pay full tax on it. I think the way they held back part of your salary for the quarter was a scandal, and I'm not sure if it was entirely legal the way it was conducted. I heard the legalities was the reason they quickly did away with it!

It was a great idea, we will not pay you 10% of your wages and will give it you back after we have claimed interest on it for 3 months, if you are lucky we might give you a slight bonus for the privelidge of us witholding it. I remember the first bonus I had was good, and then they moved the goalposts so it was impossible to achieve the targets!

Do you also remember the other chestnut....Pool Hours

I know there was hell to play when I brought up in a meeting with HR about wage differences between people in other regions and even in the same department, they were annoyed that wages were being discussed and as you said they thought someones salary was a personal thing. They tried to sort out the wages on one occassion, our regional manager gave us a powerpoint presentation and we had already been tipped off about it earlier in the day from another region. He took one page out of the presentation because it showed the proposed salary scales for the different levels of techs, we caused a big fuss and he eventually showed us, not one of us were in the scale for our grade.

I remember they assessed each persons knowledge, and it was all being controlled by Alfredo and another guy who's name escapes me. He was a right b*****d always on everyones back, but eventually worked himself up so much he left the company because of stress.
Anyway, Alfredo or this other guy marked mine and another Headend Tech's scores down, becaue we had higher scores than their glorious perfect headend techs in Glasgow. We had both been in the cable industry for 10 over 10 years, and were scored fairly.

We lost money because they didn't want anyone from Wales being paid higher than anyone in England or Scotland!

The unfair pay scales still go on in ntl, it's something they will never sort out, and it was also one of the reasons I left. There was one guy on exactly the same grade as me but earning about 4K a year more, I had about 13 years experience and he had joined the company as an installer about 4 years previously.

He's still there, and my ol boss is stuck with him in his team now.

Funny though, it was the other way around according to the Broadcast guys, they reckon the long term employees were much better off financially.

[Dee V. Bee]

When I worked at the BBC from 90-96 you *had* to be in the union (BECTU). Not from a company point of view but it was a bit like being the odd one out with your colleagues if you did not.

Since Maggie declared broadcasting 'the last bastion of restricted practice' in the 90's, the union have had less of a strangle hold on the industry to the point now they are a waste of time in my view.

Gone are the days where the unions could kill a channel for the day. Which is good.

[injuneer]

Originally Posted by Dee V. Bee

When I worked at the BBC from 90-96 you *had* to be in the union (BECTU). Not from a company point of view but it was a bit like being the odd one out with your colleagues if you did not.

Since Maggie declared broadcasting 'the last bastion of restricted practice' in the 90's, the union have had less of a strangle hold on the industry to the point now they are a waste of time in my view.

Gone are the days where the unions could kill a channel for the day. Which is good.

I agree some unions did abuse their power in the old days but now the pendulum has swung the other way, the company can ask you to do something, however unreasonable it may be, and you have no defence at all. If you don't comply you are out, end of story. The terms & conditions that unions have fought for for decades are being eroded all the time. Perhaps you would prefer a return to Victorian work practices?