Everyone seems to love Firefox. Everyone, that is, except for this man...

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by scastle

This is based on the version 1.3 (as I have just had to download it anyway).


Click on "Immunize", then at the bottom of the window, find a section headed "Permanently running bad download blocker for Internet Explorer". There is a list box below. Change this to "Block all bad pages silently". The other two options are to display a dialog when blocked, or prompt the user for what to do.

Cheers m8.....I was looking under 'settings'

[AndrewJ]

Well today decided to go back to moderating on a chat i have been away from try and try and try again firefox refused to work with this chat. Resulting it in crashing my laptop and having to reboot to get everything stable again. Not impressed...So given up I mean reading into reports online Firefox is only safer because less people are using it.

If the same number of people on ie6 suddenly went to firefox in 2years time IE6 would be safer, and Firefox would be bad. So techincally speaking there is no issue in going with a browser which is not 100% working with all sites and is still in infancy in terms of programming and completion to work with all websites and systems.

As such I have dumped firefox and gone back to ie6 until I find something better.

Again with the (completely untested, never mind unproven) claim that Firefox is only 'safer' because fewer people use it. This is a totally lazy way to defend M$, and sums up quite neatly as 'Everything else is as crap as IE', which is a ludicrous claim to make, without any proof. Firefox may or may not be a more secure browser. Personally I think it is, because the corporate culture of Mozilla is entirely different to that of M$, which is locked in a spiral of mediocrity and indifference, just the same as most monopolistic or quasi-monopolistic organisations. But even if FF's security is an illusion, it's one I'll happily make use of while the script kiddies and other assorted 'net morons are getting their kicks out of screwing up the PCs of the world's lazy M$-lovers.

As for your chat not working: the ethos of Open Source is that the community works together to develop better software. If you posted your problem on the Firefox forums, you might get a solution, and you might just help to improve the software for a future release. And don't forget, unless you happened to have this problem with the version of FF available today, you were using Beta software. Hardly a fair and direct comparison with something that is now on version 6 and *should be* a completely superb product. The fact that we're even contemplating an alternative is, to me at least, further indication of what a shoddy job M$ is doing with its web browser.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Again with the (completely untested, never mind unproven) claim that Firefox is only 'safer' because fewer people use it. This is a totally lazy way to defend M$, and sums up quite neatly as 'Everything else is as crap as IE', which is a ludicrous claim to make, without any proof. Firefox may or may not be a more secure browser. Personally I think it is, because the corporate culture of Mozilla is entirely different to that of M$, which is locked in a spiral of mediocrity and indifference, just the same as most monopolistic or quasi-monopolistic organisations. But even if FF's security is an illusion, it's one I'll happily make use of while the script kiddies and other assorted 'net morons are getting their kicks out of screwing up the PCs of the world's lazy M$-lovers.

Despite what I may have said in the past, I think there is some truth in the "more people use it, so more people hack it" train of thought. I think this is because Hackers often just want to get noticed, so they go for what will get them noticed.

However, I do think both Opera (my preferred browser on the PC & P800), Safari (my preferred browser on the Mac) and Firefox are inherantly more secure than IE.

I also think IE under XP Service Pack 2 and also IE under Windows Server 2003 is inherantly more secure than IE under other Os's or service packs.

It would be nice if MS ditched the non-standard parts of their HTML implementation though.

It would also be nice if MS changed the security setup a bit. For instance, by default Active X plug ins have full access to the system. I think they should only have full access to the system if the site accessing them is in the Intranet zone, and even that's doubtful (although may be needed for access to older web-based admin systems). For sites in all other zones, they should have limited access.

<snip>Hardly a fair and direct comparison with something that is now on version 6 and *should be* a completely superb product. The fact that we're even contemplating an alternative is, to me at least, further indication of what a shoddy job M$ is doing with its web browser.

I think we should always have alternate browsers. Competition encourages improvement. In theory anyway, it doesn't seem to have done this with IE..

RE: Your about sending feedback via the Firefox forums. I think this should be encouraged also. It's a different thing, but where I work, I manage two labs full of computers (mostly PCs with a few Macs). One problem we have is users will not tell us if a PC goes wrong (doesn't seem to be a problem with Macs). It can be irritating to get a complaint that a PC died several days ago, and hasn't been fixed when the reason it hasn't been fixed is no one reported it.

Originally Posted by scastle

Despite what I may have said in the past, I think there is some truth in the "more people use it, so more people hack it" train of thought. I think this is because Hackers often just want to get noticed, so they go for what will get them noticed.

You will get no argument from me there - I completely agree. What I find indefensible is not the claim that FF would get attacked more if it were more popular, but the claim that it has as many security problems as IE and only the fact that it doesn't get hacked as much has prevented these issues from being exposed.

This amounts to a defence of 'well, we might be crap, but at least everyone else is crap too!' Not only is it a claim based on no factual evidence, it assumes that it is ok to be poor quality so long as everyone else is. I find such lack of any drive or hunger to pursue excellence quite depressing.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Chris T

You will get no argument from me there - I completely agree. What I find indefensible is not the claim that FF would get attacked more if it were more popular, but the claim that it has as many security problems as IE and only the fact that it doesn't get hacked as much has prevented these issues from being exposed.

This amounts to a defence of 'well, we might be crap, but at least everyone else is crap too!' Not only is it a claim based on no factual evidence, it assumes that it is ok to be poor quality so long as everyone else is. I find such lack of any drive or hunger to pursue excellence quite depressing.

It is depressing... The browser programmers should be scrambling over each other to improve their browsers. To a certain extent, Opera and Mozilla are doing this. Microsoft has, to all intents and purposes, stopped.

Actually, I didn't mean my previous post to turn in to such an Anti IE rant. I do hold the opinions expressed there, but I think I went on a bit..

Sadly, I have to use IE for one site at work. Our main admin intranet site. The irritating thing is that the only thing that doesn't work properly on that site in Opera is the menu (which is written in Javascript and quite difficult to use even in IE).

[AndrewJ]

I have reported alot of bugs with Firefox and with my current pace of life I do not have time to install this to work this kinda life. I shall keep my pc in good check free of spyware and the normal internet garbage.

As for Firefox it may in time become a good rival product but end of day Internet Explorer i know will load any site online up.

However for most users I agree it is a good browser but if your after one you can just load up and forget about and just use then it aint for you. With constant issues with some sites as well as a overall weird feel to it online I eventually have gone back to IE.

Although SP2 being more secure I am not convinced it will work on my laptop with its current setup.

Shall read into it more.

[cjmillsnun]

AFAIK Microsoft have halted development on IE, and there hasn't been a new version since Windows XP was introduced. Just service pack and patch after patch, and it is still full of holes..........

Also the user who claims he has never had any spyware, download Ad-Aware and try making that claim after running it.

I connected my partners laptop to the internet for the first time last night and after 1/2 hour of general browsing (after installing XP SP2) I downloaded ad-aware... Over 20 items of spyware!!! My next download for here was FireFox.

[AndrewJ]

Same here I mean I have speant time on other forums reading information, and the quality and updated build of Firefox over IE6 is amazing, I mean IE6 is still in the era of Windows 98 SE and how it aint more hacked I do not know its sheer luck on Microsofts Part.

Well I am Firefox 1.0 from now on.

[Gareth]

It's important to realise that FF may not be targetted because its user base is less than IE, but even if/when that should occur, the fact that FF is open source means that any issues would be spotted through code reviews and subsequently fixed quicker.

I think it's just a shame that MS don't offer the financial rewards for finding bugs that Mozilla do. Although that could possibly be enough to bankrupt them.

[ikthius]

AFAIK, Micro$oft is going to update IE, but if you do not have win xp then you will have to pay up to £100 for IE, it is to make people move on to XP.

ik

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by ikthius

AFAIK, Micro$oft is going to update IE, but if you do not have win xp then you will have to pay up to £100 for IE, it is to make people move on to XP.

ik

Development has ceased on the Mac OSX version of IE.

AFAIK, Microsoft will not be making any new version of IE available for any Operating System (as a seperate product). It is still developing IE as a component for Xp, Longhorn and Server 2003 though.

Also AFAIK, they will still be patching earlier versions.

[Caspar]

I own WhichBrowser.Com and .co.uk

Anyone want to setup a website, as the editor/developer (maybe two people...), and run it to compare browsers with stats and histories etc...?

[Richard M]

Me me!