Coronavirus (OLD)

[Ken W]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Or Tell The Truth

We are still waiting for this World Beating Track and Trace

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Ken W

We are still waiting for this World Beating Track and Trace

Honestly i think you can forget that,plus the testing is flawed and unreliable if reports are accurate.

[Ken W]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Honestly i think you can forget that,plus the testing is flawed and unreliable if reports are accurate.

I agree with you

[jfman]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Honestly i think you can forget that,plus the testing is flawed and unreliable if reports are accurate.

“If”

Originally Posted by Pierre

They need to start from scratch with new holistic and encompassing strategy and ditch this piecemeal approach, and also treat the public with a bit of respect instead of trying frighten them with wild scenarios.

I’ll actually partly agree with this. They need to level with the public about what is and isn’t possible too and unfortunately for some industries tell them that they will face restrictions for some time. There’s no silver bullet of reopening everything up. This could also include tax rises to pay for some of the support that will be put in place for some industries.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by jfman

“If”



I’ll actually partly agree with this. They need to level with the public about what is and isn’t possible too and unfortunately for some industries tell them that they will face restrictions for some time. There’s no silver bullet of reopening everything up. This could also include tax rises to pay for some of the support that will be put in place for some industries.

Everything about this virus is based on the science of Ifologyluckily we seem to have no shortage of ifologists

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Old Boy if you are digging up my sarcastic posts from a couple of days ago to land a single shot it’s only showing your increasing desperation.

Delays save lives, Old Boy. The demand side of the economy.

We aren’t Sweden, cultural differences, I’d just accept the inevitable from here on in.

Interestingly while you are here - as a Sweden advocate - would you support the 40% of the UK workforce who can work from home continuing to do so - in line with the Swedish recommendations on making living with the virus sustainable?

I'm just catching up, jfman. I don't pore over the forum 24/7, and it takes time to look at everything you've missed while you are away.

There is a logic deficit in your second paragraph. Delays only delay, they do not 'save'.

My comparison with Sweden is simply to point out that they did not have a full lockdown as we did and they don't appear to have suffered for that. As I understand it, you want us to hibernate for winter, and doubtless beyond.

I have no problem with people working from home, although if too many people do that, unemployment will result from those who are employed in businesses that rely on people being in the office. Basically, what I want to see is government advice on how to keep yourself and vulnerable members of your family safe and then leave compliance to the good sense of the vast majority.

The minority will not be controlled anyway without martial law, so nothing would be lost by such a policy.

[tweetiepooh]

I do like the idea of the "infectious" test. If not infectious, even if you have the virus, then you can go around much more freely. If everyone in a "place" (centre, train, airport and thus plane) is not infectious there is less risk and can allow more freedom. (Yes on very long flights/cruised you may become infectious in the duration but a test before disembarking as egress is controlled could mitigate that.) But it would need 100% negative accuracy and be really, really quick and that is extremely unlikely.
---
I think the government is still doing well. They've made mistakes and Boris has admitted as such but it's a really hard line to walk, especially with a population that is independent minded and less obedient than some. It's hard to maintain strict rules for a disease that has only claimed around 400 under 60's with no underlying condition in England. It's not like some "plagues" with lots of people just dying in the streets and really visible symptoms and fast time to death.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Wearing your own mask reduces the likelihood of you (if you have it) infecting others - others not wearing a mask increases the likelihood (if they have COVID-19) of them infecting others.

So let's stop telling people not to congregate and just tell them that in groups of more than 6, you have to wear a mask!

That is, if they really are as effective as some are trying to put across!

[tweetiepooh]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I'm just catching up, jfman. I don't pore over the forum 24/7, and it takes time to look at everything you've missed while you are away.

<snip>

The minority will not be controlled anyway without martial law, so nothing would be lost by such a policy.

Far too much truth there and it's that minority who spoil it for everyone else. There are some in all social groups and some will have good reasons for breaking the rules (e.g. being forced to work by unscrupulous employers, no other means to achieve essential tasks - being vague here) so care needs to be taken in how policing is done but I think that those who maliciously disobey the rules need to face much bigger censure. (Then some of those will not be able to pay any fine so get away with it??!!)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54247372

People in England should work from home "if they can" to reduce social mixing and slow the spread of the virus, Michael Gove has said.

The Cabinet Office Minister also told BBC Breakfast trials of spectators at sports fixtures would be "paused".

It comes as pubs, bars, restaurants and other hospitality venues in England are told they must have a 22:00 closing time from Thursday.

Full details will be set out by the prime minister in Parliament later.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The government desperately needs to get the three Ts right - testing, tracking and tracing.

Easier said than done.

In any case, we have already heard about the problems of relying on these results. There are no 'quick fixes' to this, I'm afraid. Other than an effective vaccine, of course, which we don't have.

---------- Post added at 10:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

“If”



I’ll actually partly agree with this. They need to level with the public about what is and isn’t possible too and unfortunately for some industries tell them that they will face restrictions for some time. There’s no silver bullet of reopening everything up. This could also include tax rises to pay for some of the support that will be put in place for some industries.

And create huge unemployment in the process! Jeez!!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Easier said than done.

In any case, we have already heard about the problems of relying on these results. There are no 'quick fixes' to this, I'm afraid. Other than an effective vaccine, of course, which we don't have.

There is no one "siliver bullet", but each thing, incrementally, lessens the chances of infection.

Other countries have working apps, and 80% accuracy of tests (if that's the figure) is better than no tests - perfection is the enemy of achievability.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

And create huge unemployment in the process! Jeez!!

Sweden’s economy is down, you should accept these things are inevitable and work on practical solutions rather than herd more to their deaths unnecessarily.

Where do you stand on the Swedish proposal to keep people working from home. Would you support that 40% of the UK workforce doing this is a positive way to make our response to the virus sustainable?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There is no one "siliver bullet", but each thing, incrementally, lessens the chances of infection.

Other countries have working apps, and 80% accuracy of tests (if that's the figure) is better than no tests - perfection is the enemy of achievability.

But if the tests are manifestly inaccurate, there is no point in testing.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But if the tests are manifestly inaccurate, there is no point in testing.

“If”. There’s no real evidence to support the results are misrepresenting the trend. Wishful thinking.