Child grooming gang found guilty

Really does it matter what their background, ethnicity,age,gender or race are?

What matters is that all such are caught, prosecuted and hopefully jailed and that local authorities,police and others involved in dealing with such cases actually do their job.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Really does it matter what their background, ethnicity,age,gender or race are?

What matters is that all such are caught, prosecuted and hopefully jailed and that local authorities,police and others involved in dealing with such cases actually do their job.

I agree entirely that whoever or whatever they are they should be caught and dealt with, but what I don't like is the hiding from facts or shying away from stating the obvious because someone may be offended. I think the facts have spoken clearly for themselves in the past cases.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Really does it matter what their background, ethnicity,age,gender or race are?

I can't believe anyone would ask such a question - yes it does.

If sex gangs were made up of people from all races then you'd be absolutely right. But in each and every case like these, the vast majority of the gang members are Asian, and those that aren't are not white British. Not a hit and miss thing, but every time.

There is something going on here. There's no way it's a coincidence. I'm not saying I have the answers but I cannot believe the authorities keep ignoring the elephant in the room.

Originally Posted by Russ

If sex gangs were made up of people from all races then you'd be absolutely right. But in each and every case like these, the vast majority of the gang members are Asian, and those that aren't are not white British. Not a hit and miss thing, but every time.

Every time there is a group of more than a few people that know each other and operate in-person, rather than across the Internet. We've had examples of rings that operate other the Internet that are often white men and examples of a small group of people who are white such as that nursery scandal a while back.

From the news reports it does seem that is something about how these people operate that is unique to the community. However the crime they commit is not limited to them.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

Every time there is a group of more than a few people that know each other and operate in-person, rather than across the Internet. We've had examples of rings that operate other the Internet that are often white men and examples of a small group of people who are white such as that nursery scandal a while back.

Assuming there is no right-wing media conspiracy to play-down any reporting, how often do we hear of these not-in-person white gangs?

Originally Posted by Damien

From the news reports it does seem that is something about how these people operate that is unique to the community. However the crime they commit is not limited to them.

Nobody has ever suggested that it is.

Originally Posted by Russ

Assuming there is no right-wing media conspiracy to play-down any reporting, how often do we hear of these not-in-person white gangs?

Quite often. Isn't pretty much any busted 'child abuse ring' just a gang that operates over the Internet?

Also, Look at the allegations coming from the BBC and elsewhere back in the 1970s. You have child abuse in the Catholic Church and there are allegations of abuse at care homes too. Just because we don't call them 'gangs' doesn't mean they don't exist. The other thing is that when they're white their race is not mentioned which can skew perceptions a bit too unfairly on Asians when their race is made front and centre of the issue. Now I understand why that is but it's important to understand that it is the way they operate, and not what they're doing, that seems to be more previlent in the Asian community.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

Quite often. Isn't pretty much any busted 'child abuse ring' just a gang that operates over the Internet?

I'm pretty sure the 'Asian sex gang' pops up more.

Originally Posted by Damien

Also, Look at the allegations coming from the BBC and elsewhere back in the 1970s.

Not really comparable seeing as up until the late 70s (and during the era that most of the attacks occurred) the BBC generally only employed white people as presenters.

Originally Posted by Damien

You have child abuse in the Catholic Church and there are allegations of abuse at care homes too. Just because we don't call them 'gangs' doesn't mean they didn't exist.

The same with Catholic priests, they were by-and-large only white.

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm pretty sure the 'Asian sex gang' pops up more.

I don't care about the term we're using. I am talking about the crime. If a group of white men have conspired in person or over the Internet to abuse children then isn't that really a gang?

Not really comparable seeing as up until the late 70s (and during the era that most of the attacks occurred) the BBC generally only employed white people as presenters.

The same with Catholic priests, they were by-and-large only white.

So what? They're still alleged to have done it.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't care about the term we're using. I am talking about the crime. If a group of white men have conspired in person or over the Internet to abuse children then isn't that really a gang?

Yes it's a gang - they're over the internet and have no reason to know exactly who the other people in the gang they're talking to are. So there's at least a chance of a racial mix of individuals involved.

In these Asian sex gangs they're, well, all Asian. OK maybe not all but the vast majority are. As far as I'm aware, none are white British. That is is clear pattern and trend.

Originally Posted by Damien

So what? They're still alleged to have done it.

Sex crimes have been happening for thousands of years, regardless of race. But when there's a physical gang, the majority of races are Asian.

Originally Posted by Russ

Yes it's a gang - they're over the internet and have no reason to know exactly who the other people in the gang they're talking to are. So there's at least a chance of a racial mix of individuals involved.

Well if you're fine with the definition of a gang including people who haven't met in person then they're stories of these 'gangs' being busted all the time. It's just they're called peadofile rings rather than gangs.

In these Asian sex gangs they're, well, all Asian. OK maybe not all but the vast majority are. As far as I'm aware, none are white British. That is is clear pattern and trend.

Yes if you define 'Asian sex gang' then the majority of them are going to be Asian.

There seems to be a different modus operandi to these Asian gangs which is worth considering and looking into. Namely they operate in these close communities and target outsiders. This method of abuse seems to prevelent amongst child abusers from the Asian community, at least from the news reporters.

However that is where the distinction should be drawn. It is not the case that 'every time' they're Asian. It's just these collections of co-conspirators, or gangs, operate in a different fashion.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well if you're fine with the definition of a gang including people who haven't met in person then they're stories of these 'gangs' being busted all the time. It's just they're called peadofile rings rather than gangs.



Yes if you define 'Asian sex gang' then the majority of them are going to be Asian.

There seems to be a different modus operandi to these Asian gangs which is worth considering and looking into. Namely they operate in these close communities and target outsiders. This method of abuse seems to prevelent amongst child abusers from the Asian community, at least from the news reporters.

However that is where the distinction should be drawn. It is not the case that 'every time' they're Asian. It's just these collections of co-conspirators, or gangs, operate in a different fashion.

Do you agree that when a case gets to court about a gang of men who meet in person to abuse or rape women/girls (regardless of ethnicity), they are normally always Asian, and those that are not Asian are still not white British?

Originally Posted by Damien

Well if you're fine with the definition of a gang including people who haven't met in person then they're stories of these 'gangs' being busted all the time. It's just they're called peadofile rings rather than gangs.



Yes if you define 'Asian sex gang' then the majority of them are going to be Asian.

There seems to be a different modus operandi to these Asian gangs which is worth considering and looking into. Namely they operate in these close communities and target outsiders. This method of abuse seems to prevelent amongst child abusers from the Asian community, at least from the news reporters.

However that is where the distinction should be drawn. It is not the case that 'every time' they're Asian. It's just these collections of co-conspirators, or gangs, operate in a different fashion.

Good post.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Damien

There seems to be a different modus operandi to these Asian gangs which is worth considering and looking into. Namely they operate in these close communities and target outsiders. This method of abuse seems to prevelent amongst child abusers from the Asian community, at least from the news reporters.

However that is where the distinction should be drawn. It is not the case that 'every time' they're Asian. It's just these collections of co-conspirators, or gangs, operate in a different fashion.

Exactly, white 'gangs' are generally made up of sick people from far and wide, Asians on the other hand do not appear to have to look very far to find willing members to form a gang.

Originally Posted by Russ

Do you agree that when a case gets to court about a gang of men who meet in person to abuse or rape women/girls (regardless of ethnicity), they are normally always Asian, and those that are not Asian are still not white British?

No but I don't have any statistics on me. I am not going to base it on Googling news articles to see how many hits I get. However there are other examples of white people going to court. Ian Watkins was going to trial alongside two women, they had conspired to abuse children. There have been a few similar cases to that as well from what I can recall but I don't want to put those terms into Google.

Anyway that isn't countering my point. I agree that these gangs exist and there is something about their method of working that seems unique to those abusers who come from an Asian background. It should be looked into and I don't know why it exists. However I do not agree that the idea of a group of people conspiring to commit acts of child abuse is one that is mostly seen in the Asian community. I just believe these groups act differently. From Internet rings, to the care homes, to the catholic church.

---------- Post added at 20:16 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Escapee

Exactly, white 'gangs' are generally made up of sick people from far and wide, Asians on the other hand do not appear to have to look very far to find willing members to form a gang.

See that last bit is the concern I have other this topic. It's essentially saying Asians are more likely to commit child abuse which is a pretty presumptive conclusion when the issue still hasn't been looked at. You could say the same about the BBC, look at all the former stars in court for sexual offences of one sort or the other. Look at the scandal in the Catholic Church or care homes as well.

You can't draw conclusions based on that kind of information. It can distort the true picture. These communities are large and it's dangerous to extrapolate broad conclusions about them from news stories which are more than likely representative of the outliers and little else.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

No but I don't have any statistics on me. I am not going to base it on Googling news articles to see how many hits I get. However there are other examples of white people going to court. Ian Watkins was going to trial alongside two women, they had conspired to abuse children. There have been a few similar cases to that as well from what I can recall but I don't want to put those terms into Google.

Again, Watkins and co were not local, they met 'long distance'.

Originally Posted by Damien

Anyway that isn't countering my point. I agree that these gangs exist and there is something about their method of working that seems unique to those abusers who come from an Asian background. It should be looked into and I don't know why it exists. However I do not agree that the idea of a group of people conspiring to commit acts of child abuse is one that is mostly seen in the Asian community. I just believe these groups act differently. From Internet rings, to the care homes, to the catholic church.

The Catholic one can be answered fairly easily - the overwhelming majority of priests in the UK and Ireland are white. By sheers numbers any involved in sexual abuse are highly likely to be white.

But anyone can get a group of friends or like-minded people together from their street, neighbourhood or town. Again, unless there is a large-scale conspiracy going on they always seem to be Asian and non-white. Street sex gangs are no better or worse than any sex offenders really so I'm not going to suggest these gangs are committing worse crimes.

But there is a common denominator in all these instances. White Brits could be part of any internet, Catholic, music band gang. But they are never part of any of these gangs we hear about in court.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

You could say the same about the BBC, look at all the former stars in court for sexual offences of one sort or the other.

How many Asians do you think were employed by the BBC during the 60s and 70s as presenters?