Britain outside the EU

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Many Conservative ministers are frustrated by the deliberate stalling and pushback on policy issues by civil servants who are opposed to them. The government then has to take the brunt of these failures and it makes them look bad.

I find this hard to believe, I presume you have evidence to back this up.

How dare they?



https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...tain-transport

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Many Conservative ministers are frustrated by the deliberate stalling and pushback on policy issues by civil servants who are opposed to them. The government then has to take the brunt of these failures and it makes them look bad.

Do you really think future Conservative governments are going to put up with this behaviour when they take office in the future?

The whole existence of our system was predicated on the basis that officers would adopt a neutral position and faithfully advise and implement policies of whichever government was in power at the time. This balance is no longer in evidence, so unless the civil service can reform itself, politicians will have to make it happen.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Paul

I find this hard to believe, I presume you have evidence to back this up.

I read the newspapers and I hear what Conservative MPs are saying.

Once again, another example of people who disagree with them hijacking your comments without providing any proof to the contrary. This is how one shuts down the discussion.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I read the newspapers and I hear what Conservative MPs are saying.

So .. no then, you dont have any.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Once again, another example of people who disagree with them hijacking your comments without providing any proof to the contrary.

If you come into a topic and state "the moon is made of cheese" then you should be able to back that up if asked, its not up to others to provide "proof to the contrary" (of course, they can if they want).

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I read the newspapers and I hear what Conservative MPs are saying.

The news media and Conservative MPs, organisations well known for their commitment to the truth.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

How dare they?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...tain-transport

Comedy gold.

If the EU had included us on the map, how would the Br'Express have reacted?

Chuff off! Scheming EU civil servants' plans revealed to control Britain's transport policy!

EU bureaucrats forget we've left! Seven years after the historic vote, dozy Brussels bureaucrats are still including us on their transport policy maps.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Paul

So .. no then, you dont have any.


If you come into a topic and state "the moon is made of cheese" then you should be able to back that up if asked, its not up to others to provide "proof to the contrary" (of course, they can if they want).

You may try to deny the truth to suit your own political agenda and attempt to rubbish anyone who disagrees with you by ttying to humiliate them, but people aren't stupid - they see what you are doing.

You don't need me to provide you with proof because the proof is out there and you can look it up for yourself if you really want to show that a poster is wrong.

In this case, I did just one Google search and came up with this one at the top of the list. And...guess what? It's a Guardian article. So it must be legitimate, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-raab-scandal

“There is no civil service activism, there is no civil service passive aggression, there is no separate civil service agenda. I saw no evidence of a small group of activists trying to undermine a minister. The issue is a minister’s behaviour.”

Meanwhile, back to reality…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67795075

The government has confirmed it is not planning to change the rules on selling in imperial measures after Brexit.

Ministers looked at changing laws inherited from the EU that mean traders can use Britain's traditional weighing system only alongside the metric one.

But they have now decided not to, after nearly 99% of respondents to an official consultation said they were happy with kilos and litres.

I bet the Civil Servants fiddled the results, to thwart Johnson’s promise…

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

In this case, I did just one Google search and came up with this one at the top of the list. And...guess what? It's a Guardian article. So it must be legitimate, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-raab-scandal

Nobody has disputed that the lazy trope is a CCHQ attack line that some are well versed in to deflect from Government incompetence or inadequacy. To find it referenced in an article where a Minister has been forced out in disgrace is unsurprising, perhaps even expected.

We've asked for evidence of it actually happening.

[Sephiroth]

There are two facts:

1. The Civil Service is generally leftist, of which Sue Gray is a leading example.

2. The current government is incompetent.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There are two facts:

1. The Civil Service is generally leftist, of which Sue Gray is a leading example.

2. The current government is incompetent.

One person leaving the Civil Service to work for a political party does not support the sweeping generalisation.

Lord Frost was a civil servant in times gone by, now he's a Conservative peer.

Just repeatedly saying something doesn’t make it a fact - a fact is something supported by proof, not a feeling…

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You may try to deny the truth to suit your own political agenda and attempt to rubbish anyone who disagrees with you by ttying to humiliate them, but people aren't stupid - they see what you are doing.

You don't need me to provide you with proof because the proof is out there and you can look it up for yourself if you really want to show that a poster is wrong.

In this case, I did just one Google search and came up with this one at the top of the list. And...guess what? It's a Guardian article. So it must be legitimate, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-raab-scandal

Old Boy, I can't see a political agenda on Paul's part here - he is just asking you to provide some evidence.

From court rooms to forums, the burden of proof is with the person making a statement to back it up with evidence. Not on someone else to disprove it.

You've begrudgingly attempted to find some supporting evidence here but the article does not evidence your claim that there is

...deliberate stalling and pushback on policy issues by civil servants

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There are two facts:

1. The Civil Service is generally leftist, of which Sue Gray is a leading example.

2. The current government is incompetent.

1. No proof

2. Proof