Britain outside the EU

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Your ‘i.e.’ does not excuse the crassness of your remark. How can a democratic vote in the UK be ‘anti-UK’? It is certainly anti-EU.

None of you Remoaners has been able to provide a realistic list damage to the UK caused by Brexit.

Also, please tell me whether the EU aim of pulling sovereignty into Brussels (ever growing Union) has your full-hearted approval? That’s what we voted against.

People want a better life and business wants to maintain profit. The two go hand in hand and only needs a non-shitshow government to make faster progress on this front.

Seph, people have posted countless examples of the damage done to the country by leaving the EU. We're wasting our time giving you yet more. Just Google it!

Sometimes people (the 37%) get it wrong. They listen to the lies and enough people are fooled. It happens ..

Originally Posted by Pierre

I do like a beer, but on a Sunday / school night. Best to not get too intoxicated……..mate…..which you are not.

That little outburst is just getting off my chest…because I’m bored of it, and it is also accurate.

“Remainers” which is a poor term, Anti-UK is much better and more accurate.

All they do is bitch and moan, 7 yrs down the line, thank god I’m not married to one… maaaate….

I also get bored of it too, but that's why I just don't comment much in this thread.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Damien

I also get bored of it too, but that's why I just don't comment much in this thread.

But what are you actually bored of? The discussion of the ongoing damage done to the country and the necessity to hold the people responsible to account? Why would this "bore" you? Do you think this should be all whitewashed and swept under the carpet?

Should we just watch these people continue with their maligned policies and say nothing? Just watch the excrement pumped into the sea & rivers and stay silent? Should we just watch them erode our freedoms and enjoy the race to the bottom?

Originally Posted by ianch99

But what are you actually bored of? The discussion of the ongoing damage done to the country and the necessity to hold the people responsible to account? Why would this "bore" you? Do you think this should be all whitewashed and swept under the carpet?

Should we just watch these people continue with their maligned policies and say nothing? Just watch the excrement pumped into the sea & rivers and stay silent? Should we just watch them erode our freedoms and enjoy the race to the bottom?

I wouldn’t expect someone who passionately believes we should be in the EU to shut up about it, any more than I shut up about wanting us out of it my entire adult life. Such is the nature of campaigning for constitutional change.

However, what we have achieved is indeed a constitutional change, not a simple legislative one, and it will take time, perhaps considerable time, for the opportunities afforded to be taken full advantage of. Complaints about each individual perceived disadvantage, lacking as they do the deep perspective of time required to fully evaluate a constitutional change, just become white noise after a while.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Seph, people have posted countless examples of the damage done to the country by leaving the EU. We're wasting our time giving you yet more. Just Google it!

Sometimes people (the 37%) get it wrong. They listen to the lies and enough people are fooled. It happens ..

You can't get out of it like that.

Andrew's list, for example, was reduced to just one piece of damage due to Brexit. You've not produced a valid multiple list either - by 'list' I mean detriment that really matters to everybody.

Plus you have called the referendum decision 'anti-UK', which is perverse - but I note you haven't come back on that point.



---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

But what are you actually bored of? The discussion of the ongoing damage done to the country and the necessity to hold the people responsible to account? Why would this "bore" you? Do you think this should be all whitewashed and swept under the carpet?

Should we just watch these people continue with their maligned policies and say nothing? Just watch the excrement pumped into the sea & rivers and stay silent? Should we just watch them erode our freedoms and enjoy the race to the bottom?

What 'ongoing damage' due to Brexit?

'Excrement pumped into the sea' - really? Down to Brexit?

Originally Posted by ianch99

But what are you actually bored of? The discussion of the ongoing damage done to the country and the necessity to hold the people responsible to account? Why would this "bore" you? Do you think this should be all whitewashed and swept under the carpet?

I am bored of the discussion on here that goes around in circles. I voted to Remain, I would still vote to Remain, if we had the exact same terms offered to us (i.e. minus the Euro) then I would probably vote to rejoin. I still think our leaving has been a big mistake that has cost us economically.

But I could have said that last year, the year before that and the year before that. Everything else is just variations on a theme until there is a realistic chance this might change.

So I don't come on this thread that much other than a cursory glance once in a while and I suggested that Pierre do the same. You don't enter a discussion to declare your disinterest in it (other than me doing it right now obviously).

[Sephiroth]

I'm not bored at all. It's fun!

My Leave vote was a marginal decision. What did it was France and the sneaky way they got the WTD changed from veto-able to a H&S issue. True our opt-out mechanism had the same result as no WTD for those who did not want the imposition. But France wields unfair power within the EU and if you couple this with ever closer union, I knew what my vote had to be.

Then to see certain Remoaners on here bleating wildly about how Brexit is a disaster for the UK inspires me to fight back.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You can't get out of it like that.

Andrew's list, for example, was reduced to just one piece of damage due to Brexit. You've not produced a valid multiple list either - by 'list' I mean detriment that really matters to everybody.

The list was valid when I posted it and remains so. The points have been detailed in the preceding couple of pages. Unfortunately, wishful thinking can't wish them away.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The list was valid when I posted it and remains so. The points have been detailed in the preceding couple of pages. Unfortunately, wishful thinking can't wish them away.

Apart from the one, the list was not due to Brexit but were due to non-Brexit factors.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Apart from the one, the list was not due to Brexit but were due to non-Brexit factors.

Wishful thinking. Understandable in the circumstances but nonetheless, wishful thinking.

- Reduced food self-sufficiency -I believe Rees-Mogg has acknowledged this.

- Everyone on average worse off by £2k+ pa - tick - see the report I cited.

- Inability to return unlawful migrants to France - I think you've acknowledged this point.

- Decreased productivity - see the report I cited of 2.5% reduction in Brexit. Previously cited but here

Replacement of existing models at Nissan is welcome news but should be a given. Where are the new factories? Tesla and BYD have ruled the UK out due to Brexit.
https://www.just-auto.com/news/brexi...plant-reports/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...idUKKBN1XN1HW/


As Ian notes, Covid and Ukraine aren't just UK problem but I acknowledge that they will have impacted countries differently.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm not bored at all. It's fun!

My Leave vote was a marginal decision. What did it was France and the sneaky way they got the WTD changed from veto-able to a H&S issue. True our opt-out mechanism had the same result as no WTD for those who did not want the imposition. But France wields unfair power within the EU and if you couple this with ever closer union, I knew what my vote had to be.

Then to see certain Remoaners on here bleating wildly about how Brexit is a disaster for the UK inspires me to fight back.

Seph, you are just trolling to wind people up. Get a grip man!

The serious point is the successful project to change macro economic & societal direction of the country using lies & misinformation, delivered by an undemocratic 37% of the electorate. No country's destiny should be changed so significantly on such a woeful majority. A supermajority was essential here.

Here's some bedtime reading since you are unware of any harmful effects of Brexit:

Economic effects of Brexit

Long-term impact on the UK economy

There was overwhelming or near-unanimous agreement among economists that leaving the European Union would adversely affect the British economy in the medium- and long-term. Surveys of economists in 2016 showed overwhelming agreement that Brexit would likely reduce the UK's real per-capita income level. 2017 and 2019 surveys of existing academic research found that the credible estimates ranged between GDP losses of 1.2–4.5% for the UK, and a cost of between 1 and 10% of the UK's income per capita. These estimates varied depending on whether the UK left via a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit. In January 2018, the UK government's own Brexit analysis was leaked; it showed that UK economic growth would be stunted by 2–8% for at least 15 years following Brexit, depending on the leave scenario

[Sephiroth]

The pre-Brexit dip was inevitable because of uncertainty. Now that the FTA is in force, things are operating with certainty and British business will recover the economy. It has to, so it will.

As I have already said, the economy is not what it's all about. Not having our independence taken away Brussels is right up there. It just needs a competent government.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It has to, so it will.

That's a law of economics I've not come across before!

[jfman]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's a law of economics I've not come across before!

Keynes, Mill, Marx… Old Boy?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

Keynes, Mill, Marx… Old Boy?

Sephonomics. It has to, so it will. A niche economic theory based on the supposition that British business will overcome economic reality based on the 20th century doctrine of British exceptionalism.