31-10-2005, 12:16
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#541
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Half in the corporeal, half in the etheral
Posts: 37,167
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
You don't have a free choice of which Church you go to if you want a Catholic service, for instance. You don't have a free choice of music that you hear on the radio.
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What if that church or radio station is the only one for miles around?
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From Jim Cornette:
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31-10-2005, 12:17
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#542
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
I know that choice of restaurant doesn't have health and safety implications but I hope that you can see my point.
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I see your point yes but what you have said above is exactly the issue. I am all for free choice yes, but not when it comes to something as dangerous as this.
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
Why should you have a free choice of pub when millions of the population are given no choice?
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As Basa said, smokers are free to enter into the pub, they will simply have to go outside to smoke. Sorry, but the habit is dangerous, end of story. It's not a lifestyle choice, it's a dangerous habit that you are either unwilling, or 'unable' to quit, and all this talk of 'free choice' will not disguise that. Basa, as a smoker, accepts that as it is his habit, he should not inflict it upon others, and chooses to smoke outside, and I applaud that.
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31-10-2005, 12:24
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#543
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by basa
Maybe you should observe the fact this thread is discussing possible new legislation to outlaw smoking in public places. The legislation would effectively prohibit owners from allowing smoking in their property .. presumably because smoking is hazardous to persons.
Smokers and non smokers can then use the premises, except to smoke in !!!!
(There is always a very large space in which smoking is permitted .. it is called THE OPEN AIR.)
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Discussing possible new legislation involves hearing both sides of the argument. It appears that one side is in favour of restricting freedom of choice whilst the other side is sticking up for freedom of choice.
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31-10-2005, 12:27
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#544
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
It appears that one side is in favour of restricting freedom of choice whilst the other side is sticking up for freedom of choice.
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Freedom of choice is not what is at stake here!!!!!!!!!!
The health of millions is what is important!
(And actually you are trying to restrict my freedom of choice btw with regards what pubs I go to so  )
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31-10-2005, 12:34
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#545
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Inactive
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by clarie
Freedom of choice is not what is at stake here!!!!!!!!!!
The health of millions is what is important!
(And actually you are trying to restrict my freedom of choice btw with regards what pubs I go to so ) |
Freedom of choice is certainly at stake here.
The only concern regarding health is the health of people who knowingly choose to go into an establishment that allows smoking.
I love your I'm all right Jack, sod the millions who want to enjoy a night out at the pub where they can drink, smoke and socialise attitude
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31-10-2005, 12:37
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#546
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Half in the corporeal, half in the etheral
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
Freedom of choice is certainly at stake here.
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Well you could say that the anti-terror laws are against the suicide bombers' freedom of choice!
Or if you want to try one within the law, if I wanted to follow you around and fart within your personal space, I'm sure you'd object.
But wait! It's my freedom of choice to follow you around!
__________________
From Jim Cornette:
“Ty, Fy, bye”
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31-10-2005, 12:40
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#547
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
The only concern regarding health is the health of people who knowingly choose to go into an establishment that allows smoking.
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Yeah, and who cares about them anyway...
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
I love your I'm all right Jack, sod the millions who want to enjoy a night out at the pub where they can drink, smoke and socialise attitude
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Ach, calm down. They can still drink and socialise. And pop outside for a fag.
As I have said before, I am sure it's not too much effort to pop outside. After all, you have already sacrificed so much to maintain your habit - finances, fresh smell, good health, fitness, and flesh coloured fingers...
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31-10-2005, 12:40
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#548
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: S Manchester
Age: 76
Posts: 1,766
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
Freedom of choice is certainly at stake here.
The only concern regarding health is the health of people who knowingly choose to go into an establishment that allows smoking.
I love your I'm all right Jack, sod the millions who want to enjoy a night out at the pub where they can drink, smoke and socialise attitude
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Point is Ian, it is only the smoker who gets freedom of choice here. The non smoker cannot choose to enter a non smoky atmosphere because it will not exist.
The smoker can choose to go outside to smoke or not smoke. Then everyone who wishes can enjoy the pub. Those who want to smoke go outside, those that want to relieve themselves of the 6 pints they've consumed can go to the loo.
Simple. 
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31-10-2005, 12:42
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#549
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
Basa: 
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31-10-2005, 12:44
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#550
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Inactive
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Re: smoking and the pub
Just to add another dimension to the debate.
If I could predominantly address the smokers...
Ash estimates that just under 5000 lives could be saved each year by this smoking ban. If they are liberally overestimating that figure and just for arguments sake we said it only saved one life......wouldn't it be worth it? If I handed a bag round asking for a £1 to save a life of someone who had cancer for eg, you'd probably put one in. It wouldn't really cost you much (unless you were very poor of course). So how about actually allowing an element of cost into your life with respect to smoking and save a life?
In reference to children and passive smoking mentioned before, did you realise that 17000 children under the age of 5 are to hospital every year because of the effects of passive smoking?
Smokers, stop being so selfish and think of the health of the nation and not your "right" to smoke in a public enclosed space!
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31-10-2005, 12:45
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#551
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,985
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by BASA
(There is always a very large space in which smoking is permitted .. it is called THE OPEN AIR.)
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What!!! and be forced to breathe in all that Lead and those Diesel particulates
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The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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31-10-2005, 12:54
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#552
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: S Manchester
Age: 76
Posts: 1,766
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by Salu
Just to add another dimension to the debate.
If I could predominantly address the smokers...
Ash estimates that just under 5000 lives could be saved each year by this smoking ban. If they are liberally overestimating that figure and just for arguments sake we said it only saved one life......wouldn't it be worth it? If I handed a bag round asking for a £1 to save a life of someone who had cancer for eg, you'd probably put one in. It wouldn't really cost you much (unless you were very poor of course). So how about actually allowing an element of cost into your life with respect to smoking and save a life?
In reference to children and passive smoking mentioned before, did you realise that 17000 children under the age of 5 are to hospital every year because of the effects of passive smoking?
Smokers, stop being so selfish and think of the health of the nation and not your "right" to smoke in a public enclosed space!
Smokers, stop being so selfish and think of the health of the nation and not your "right" to smoke in a public enclosed space!
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As a smoker I endorse all that Salu says. 
Also I feel it is criminal for anyone to smoke in the presence of any under 16 year old as I have previously pointed out. Where is freedom of choice there ?? Does your baby go outside in his baby walker ?? 
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Originally Posted by Pierre
What!!! and be forced to breathe in all that Lead and those Diesel particulates
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You could always ban road vehicles ...... I cycle to work !!!!  My fags burn more quickly though !! 
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31-10-2005, 13:05
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#553
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by Pierre
What!!! and be forced to breathe in all that Lead and those Diesel particulates
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That risk will remain whether we enforce a smoking ban or not!
It's almost like saying 'we have found a cure for Aids! But we better not enforce it cos we haven't found a cure for cancer yet.' Sounds ridiculous doesn't it.
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31-10-2005, 13:07
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#554
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Guest
Location: Bury
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Re: smoking and the pub
Ian, Has anyone ever tried to force feed you an Indian takeway? If this was a widespread practice maybe you have a point, otherwise........ 
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