Coronavirus (OLD)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Old Boy the contortions that you put yourself in to justify the Governments steps at every stage and the contradictions that result are utterly laughable.

No lockdown - they're going to die anyway - has become we had a late lockdown, there were early deaths but it's alright now. Despite the obvious contradiction that many believe we are better at treating complex cases.

Again there's no evidence to support that we won't go into a second wave unless we keep present restrictions and likely add to them. Steps the Government are taking from next week. It's speculative nonsense, much like your claim that it won't like high temperatures.

---------- Post added at 10:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------



By the point that happens it will simply be too late to intervene. Almost nobody catches Covid and falls into a hospital bed on day 2.

Of course we know the actual numbers are rising - testing has been available for those with symptoms for some weeks now. You can bury your head in the sand, as you have throughout the pandemic, but your 'solutions' neither protect public health or the economy.

You are the one who is confused, jfman. My post made perfect sense to anyone who actually read it properly.

You are digging up old arguments with the seasonal issue. All I did last spring was to speculate that if this virus behaved the same way as flu, it should die off in the summer, but it soon became clear that the virus was spreading very rapidly in both hot and cold countries.

Yes, many of us called it flu - it is similar in a lot of ways. But we all now know the differences, and the impact any new virus or strain of virus can have.

What do you mean, there is no evidence that we won't go into a second wave? Admittedly, we could do, but I've already pointed out that a mathematician has calculated that our late lockdown could have had benefits for us in that respect. It's only a theory, but it is evidence. If we do get a second wave, it proves that this virus is going nowhere and lockdowns, in the end, are futile.

A permanent lockdown is not on, and it won't happen. However, one bit of good news for you. If you want to lockdown yourself, you can do so for as long as you like. No-one is stopping you. Let me know if you need any padlocks.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The number of tests continues to increase and that is what is causing a higher number in the statistics. Reduce the testing and guess what? The numbers come down again.

That's funny because the Chief Medical Officer for the United Kingdom said a mere two hours ago that the prevalence of the virus is up, and that's causing positives to rise across all age groups.

I'm wondering who is more likely to be right - open the economy at all costs
Old Boy or the Chief Medical Officer? Hmmm....

You are the one who is confused, jfman. My post made perfect sense to anyone who actually read it properly.

You are digging up old arguments with the seasonal issue. All I did last spring was to speculate that if this virus behaved the same way as flu, it should die off in the summer, but it soon became clear that the virus was spreading very rapidly in both hot and cold countries.

You engaged in speculative nonsense - as you have throughout - to justify your nonsensical position of reopening the economy at all costs. It was apparent then that the virus was already spreading in climates aligned to a North European summer.

Yes, many of us called it flu - it is similar in a lot of ways. But we all now know the differences, and the impact any new virus or strain of virus can have.

What do you mean, there is no evidence that we won't go into a second wave? Admittedly, we could do, but I've already pointed out that a mathematician has calculated that our late lockdown could have had benefits for us in that respect. It's only a theory, but it is evidence. If we do get a second wave, it proves that this virus is going nowhere and lockdowns, in the end, are futile.

A mathematician? Who?

Again the Chief Medical Officer of the United Kingdom has pointed out that our trajectory is clearly on the up, and mirrors other European countries at round -4 weeks. Again who is more likely to be right here? Him, and a Government that are heeding his advice, or your 'mathematician?

A permanent lockdown is not on, and it won't happen. However, one bit of good news for you. If you want to lockdown yourself, you can do so for as long as you like. No-one is stopping you. Let me know if you need any padlocks.

In your opinion a lockdown is not on, however it's an emergency brake and if the situation deteriorates - which it will without intervention - then it's inevitable. You will note that Matt Hancock didn't rule it out, nor has Boris Johnson.

Now what's the track record of your opinions here, Old Boy?

While you are right that the good news for me that I can limit my interactions with other people, save on my commute, coffees, muffins. I can now meet colleagues socially on a voluntary basis in the pub on a Friday night rather than be forced into open plan offices to engage with them. Might even do the pub quiz tomorrow too.

That's bad news for the economy Old Boy. It'll remain the case. There's no going back to the old normal without resolving the virus issue. Bad news for those on furlough. Bad news for city centre property developers. Those burying their heads in the sand hoping to leap from one quick fix to another with failure after failure will eventually look back and see that they were wrong. What are we £210bn and a recession in? Boris and his moonshot have been priced at £110bn to do that level of testing for 12 months. We couldn't afford lockdown though.

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/...box=1599660760

Do we think Alan has the begging bowl out for some corporate socialism?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are the one who is confused, jfman. My post made perfect sense to anyone who actually read it properly.

You are digging up old arguments with the seasonal issue. All I did last spring was to speculate that if this virus behaved the same way as flu, it should die off in the summer, but it soon became clear that the virus was spreading very rapidly in both hot and cold countries.

Yes, many of us called it flu - it is similar in a lot of ways. But we all now know the differences, and the impact any new virus or strain of virus can have.

What do you mean, there is no evidence that we won't go into a second wave? Admittedly, we could do, but I've already pointed out that a mathematician has calculated that our late lockdown could have had benefits for us in that respect. It's only a theory, but it is evidence. If we do get a second wave, it proves that this virus is going nowhere and lockdowns, in the end, are futile.

A permanent lockdown is not on, and it won't happen. However, one bit of good news for you. If you want to lockdown yourself, you can do so for as long as you like. No-one is stopping you. Let me know if you need any padlocks.

And when asked politely for a link to back up this assertion, failed to provide one.

Also, you stated previously on the 5th that scientists had said that the delay in lockdown made no difference in the impact of the virus, and there would be no 2nd wave - when asked for a link, once again none was forthcoming...

[Hom3r]

Below is what I put on my town face book page in response to those who make excuses to not wearing a mask.

I did have a lot of people back me, but a few villages are missing their idiot.

I want to explain my anger towards those who don't wear masks, regardless the reason.

On the 17th of March I picked my mum up from her sisters, we went into Sainsbury's (not much choice due to panic buying) and while walking around I said to her that as of tomorrow ill do all the shopping and when I've eaten my tea at night ill go and stay in my room to avoid contact as I was working and god knows what the idiots at were doing to prevent spread.

On the 18th of March I was up at 6am and went to work I got in at 6pm and my mum said she had to sit as her legs were very painful. Well after several attempts tooing and throwing between 111 & 999 an ambulance arrived, and she was taken to hospital as she had no movement below the waist.

At 6am on the 19th I had to call my sister to ask can she take over as I had been up 24 hours, she took over at 730am, and I was in bed by 8am. I was awoken at 9am with my sister in tears saying that mums O2 had crashed to 50% and I should get here. I did but had to get my dad as we were told to prepare for the worse. I eventually got to bed after being awake for 38½ hours.

On the 26th of March were told that she had the Coronavirus and I had to leave work immediately and self-quarantine.

Days after this I was furloughed.

On the 14th of April we were told that the Coronavirus has left her paralysed.

On the 15th of April she was moved to a nursing home some 30 minutes always.

In that time I have only seen her 3 times, once her wedding anniversary and second birthday.

Now the home is allowing only one household to visit every 3 weeks. So I have told my sister to do it.

I was made redundant on July 1st which means I am at risk of losing my car.

We are currently in the process of getting her home, I spent 9 weeks sorting out the house in 30c heat during the hottest days this year and a bed has been delivered and the mattress is being order, then it's the care package, it will mean me getting up at 3am every morning to move her to another position in bed.

If I knew then what I know now, perhaps she would still be walking, so forgive me if I say there is no reason not to wear a mask or stay at home if you don't, as I wouldn't wish my nightmare on my enemies.

[jfman]

Brave to post on FB with so many idiots on social media.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by jfman

Brave to post on FB with so many idiots on social media.

Lets not generalise everybody that uses social media as a idiot.

Hope things will turn around for you soon Hom3r.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Below is what I put on my town face book page in response to those who make excuses to not wearing a mask.

I did have a lot of people back me, but a few villages are missing their idiot.

Well done for speaking out. I hope things improve soon.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by jfman

Brave to post on FB with so many idiots on social media.

Not really, I say it as I see.

I will happily and conscious free say what I feel about those not wearing masks.

In fact one person said that they have fought the anxiety that a mask causes.


I have said that perhaps if your breathing is so bad wearing a mask that you should stay at home, also it is selfish not to wear one.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Not really, I say it as I see.

I will happily and conscious free say what I feel about those not wearing masks.

In fact one person said that they have fought the anxiety that a mask causes.


I have said that perhaps if your breathing is so bad wearing a mask that you should stay at home, also it is selfish not to wear one.

I hope that your mum gets better, although having said that the damage has already been done, imo the wearing of masks is only necessary when in a shop etc or where there are many people close together, i do not wear a mask outwith those conditions.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And when asked politely for a link to back up this assertion, failed to provide one.

Also, you stated previously on the 5th that scientists had said that the delay in lockdown made no difference in the impact of the virus, and there would be no 2nd wave - when asked for a link, once again none was forthcoming...

I'll try and help move this debate forwards. My understanding is that no one on the forum has found any scientists supporting Old Boy's assertion and the OP appears not to have done so yet either.

However, Julian did kindly unearth a maths professor in Bristol whose model suggested Britain's infection rate peaked on 18th March which the Daily Mail said threw into question whether Britain's lockdown on 23rd March was necessary.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-lockdown.html

[Carth]

I can't remember what the original assertion was . . . possibly that 'experts' said an early lockdown would cause more/less deaths . . or the general public getting fed up and returning to 'normal' life at the worst possible time? . . . or . . well excuse me, I can't be bothered to trawl back

I do vaguely remember reading all sorts of stuff pertaining to the above though, but in all honesty can't remember if it was on definite web sites or just people posting stuff from the twitter/facebook accounts of the 'experts'.

What I do know though, is that whatever you read on the internet can be deleted or altered if it then makes people look stupid or incompetent . . . or there is enough 'pressure' from other sources to make it happen.

Not that I'm fussed about this particular assertion anyway, it's probably just the mundane boredom getting to me

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by jfman

Brave to post on FB with so many idiots on social media.

There's plenty of idiots on this forum as well. Plenty of idiots on reddit, or the BBC, or the Daily mail and so on. Idiots everywhere.

My concern is that in this instance, the idiocy is costing lives and there's a distinct lack of self-awareness about it (at best) or just a complete lack of regard for our fellow humans (at worst).

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Kushan

There's plenty of idiots on this forum as well. Plenty of idiots on reddit, or the BBC, or the Daily mail and so on. Idiots everywhere.

My concern is that in this instance, the idiocy is costing lives and there's a distinct lack of self-awareness about it (at best) or just a complete lack of regard for our fellow humans (at worst).

Opens up a huge can of worms, Kush.

Translating your generalisation, what's costing lives is the behaviour of the 19 to 25 year group. Nothing will stop their senselessness because they have nothing in which to root wisdom. Whether or not it can be avoided in the next generation through some form of ideological implantation .....

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Opens up a huge can of worms, Kush.

Translating your generalisation, what's costing lives is the behaviour of the 19 to 25 year group. Nothing will stop their senselessness because they have nothing in which to root wisdom. Whether or not it can be avoided in the next generation through some form of ideological implantation .....

That age group might be pulling in the largest infections, but they're by no means the only ones spreading it. My generalisation isn't directed at a specific age group or demographic, just those that think they "know better", or "don't care about experts" or think wearing a mask is an attack on their human rights or anything like that.

Unfortunately, that group spans plenty of age groups.