Brexit (Old) - Page 321

**Hugh** · 11-12-2018, 19:33

Repeated warning- Let's leave the British Empire to another time or thread.

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Further off-topic post deleted- any more, infractions will be issued, as will those who use personal insults.

jfman · 11-12-2018, 19:33

I suspect the leave voters are trying to sabotage this thread so they can deny the present too.

The dream is crumbling along with this Government.

Pierre · 11-12-2018, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I suspect the leave voters are trying to sabotage this thread so they can deny the present too.

The dream is crumbling along with this Government.

If you have nothing to say, why post? Are you that bored?

jfman · 11-12-2018, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I did spot that, the problem being a second referendum doesn’t need a majority of the public to want one, only Parliament to legislate for it.

What’d be curious, and I accept highly unlikely, is if leave voters boycotted the referendum. It’d be a legally enacted referendum with no real legitimacy. To lose 52-48 would demonstrably be a shift in public opinion, but what if you couldn’t measure a shift at all?

I refer to my last post, the most recent post that didn’t contradict moderator instructions. I welcome any input that isn’t a personal insult.

Pierre · 11-12-2018, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I did spot that, the problem being a second referendum doesn’t need a majority of the public to want one, only Parliament to legislate for it.

As I have maintained a second referendum is not an issue for me, but what it asks is.

Quote:

What’d be curious, and I accept highly unlikely, is if leave voters boycotted the referendum. It’d be a legally enacted referendum with no real legitimacy. To lose 52-48 would demonstrably be a shift in public opinion, but what if you couldn’t measure a shift at all?

I think the result would be too close to call, a second referendum is a massive gamble for Parliament. Because, regardless of opinion polls, it is one they could very well lose. Then what??? For them?

A second referendum is a possibility, but I think they will try some other avenue to revoke A50 “temporarily” for an indeterminate amount of time until they are convinced they would win (by they I mean parliament) a referendum.

Can I personally insult you later?

ianch99 · 11-12-2018, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

Can I personally insult you later?

The strangest remark so far on this thread ... and there have been many

denphone · 11-12-2018, 20:47

Haulage bosses say plans for customs ‘dire’ and government in denial over scale of issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...no-deal-brexit

Quote:

Government plans for customs checks at Dover in a no-deal scenario are so impractical it would take eight hours to clear an average lorry carrying food and goods from Calais, the Road Haulage Association has warned.

Quote:

It said plans for no-deal Brexit were “dire” and the sector faced a catastrophe on 30 March.

Quote:

“The government is in denial about the scale of this,” said Rod McKenzie, director of policy at the RHA, which represents major hauliers including Eddie Stobart and DHL.

Sephiroth · 11-12-2018, 20:53

A second referendum would have to be advisory only (the first was declared by the then PM to be binding). That is because exit is enshrined in law unless/until new primary legislation repeals the 2018 ACT.

pip08456 · 11-12-2018, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I refer to my last post, the most recent post that didn’t contradict moderator instructions. I welcome any input that isn’t a personal insult.

Sorry you considered it as personal but I would consider it applied to anyone of you POV (not you personally). Can we leave it there?

2nd referendum. not a hope in hell!

Remain or leave has already been decided and no deal with any Country or Bloc has ever been decided by the electorate.

jfman · 11-12-2018, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

Sorry you considered it as personal but I would consider it applied to anyone of you POV (not you personally). Can we leave it there?

2nd referendum. not a hope in hell!

Remain or leave has already been decided and no deal with any Country or Bloc has ever been decided by the electorate.

You are inviting reopening a discussion you been told to leave. Whether you’d use the insult in a blanket fashion is irrelevant.

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If the 48 letters are in can Corbyn get there first or does he wait and see who wins the Tory leadership? Does May actually win it?

RichardCoulter · 11-12-2018, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

A second referendum would have to be advisory only (the first was declared by the then PM to be binding). That is because exit is enshrined in law unless/until new primary legislation repeals the 2018 ACT.

There was nothing in the 2015 EU Referendum Act that made the outcome of the referendum legally binding.

In 2010 the House Of Lords Constitution Committee explained that referendums in this country can only ever be advisory because of the sovereignty of Parliament. The only way that they could become legally binding would be if Parliament actively agreed to bind itself to the result of a future referendum.

Confusion has been caused by people e.g. the former Culture Secretary Karen Bradley erroneously saying that the result was actually binding.

pip08456 · 11-12-2018, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

There was nothing in the 2015 EU Referendum Act that made the outcome of the referendum legally binding.

In 2010 the House Of Lords Constitution Committee explained that referendums in this country can only ever be advisory because of the sovereignty of Parliament. The only way that they could become legally binding would be if Parliament actively agreed to bind itself to the result of a future referendum.

Confusion has been caused by people e.g. the former Culture Secretary Karen Bradley erroneously saying that the result was actually binding

.

European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018

jfman · 11-12-2018, 22:16

It’ll sound pedantic, but the fact Parliament chose to introduce legislation on the back of the result doesn’t prove the result in and of itself was legally binding upon Parliament.

The legal status of the referendum is that Parliament chose to follow the advice. No statement by any Minister or any document produced by the Government and posted into every home in the country can change that. If a Government policy was to follow the result again that’s a manifesto commitment with no legal status.

The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is legally binding until such times as Parliament withdraws or amends it.

I know, it’s pedantic, and of no real consequence to what may/may not happen in future anyway. All the options are on the table. Deal, no deal, extension, remain (2nd referendum optional but politically very likely required before remain).

Alternatively a party could win a general election with a commitment to remain and unilaterally withdraw A50 but I’m sure despite much disagreement on this thread we would all agree that’s unlikely! Politically and legally, it’d be legit tho.

RichardCoulter · 11-12-2018, 22:40

EU Parliament on lock down following a shooting incident in Strasbourg Centre Christmas market. EU staff said to be safe in their building.

It'll be interesting to find out if this has got anything to do with Brexit.

1andrew1 · 11-12-2018, 23:32

May's strategy:

* Frame the choice in January as being her deal or a chaotic no-deal Brexit.
* To ensure this, meaningful no-deal planning has been put on hold with no solution existing for the crucial Dover-Calais route.
* Will tell her cabinet on Wednesday to ramp up no-deal planning, but as this is too late in the day its true purpose will be to emphasise the oncoming chaos if there is no deal.
* Concessions squeezed out of Europe will be used to win over some of the Eurosceptics.

https://www.ft.com/content/c14c8f1c-...0-57a2a826423e