Coronavirus (OLD)

Originally Posted by nomadking

Coronavirus: Spain added to England's quarantine list
How many people are going to get caught out by that?

Expect the action to be repeated for other countries when outbreaks happen.

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

I wonder if it includes the Canary Islands.

I believe so, along with the Balearics.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Yet now they are saying if we'd done it earlier it'd have been shorter, and easier to test, trace and isolate.

Instead we've got the second wave coming and Boris hasn't ruled out a second national lockdown. Indeed, he's already talking it up as a bold, drastic measure, a bit patriotic too like the nuclear deterrent.

The fact remains that the likes of Prof Whittey, by his own admission, were advising the government against an early lockdown. The government accepted that advice - why would they not?

Unless you let the virus run free in the population, we will continue to get second, third, fourth (etc) waves. It will carry on like that until it is done with us.

There is surely enough evidence of this in other parts of the world, and most recently in Spain. Admittedly, the virus would have been slowed down quicker had there been an earlier lockdown in the UK, but that would simply have left more people to be infected at a later date.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

l thought it was supposed to be world beating.

Yeah, if it worked! Boris fell for the civil service hype. They cannot keep to deadlines or what is expected of them for the life of them! I'm glad to see that a purge is on the cards.

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Indeed I agree, in March it was out of control which is why the emergency brake of a lockdown was needed. With exponential growth even a lockdown a week earlier, theoretically, would leave you chasing for 30% of the live cases give or take using a test, trace, isolate system at the end of an equal length lockdown.

If the virus goes out of control again then a second lockdown remains inevitable. Restrictions are coming back around the world, in US states and in Europe, where flare ups aren't brought under control by test, trace, isolate.

Any further lockdown should be targeted and focussed on 'at risk' groups. A total lockdown is taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

I wonder if it includes the Canary Islands.

Hopefully, this will apply only to mainland Spain. It would be foolish to include the Canaries if their infection rates were acceptable.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The fact remains that the likes of Prof Whittey, by his own admission, were advising the government against an early lockdown. The government accepted that advice - why would they not?

Unless you let the virus run free in the population, we will continue to get second, third, fourth (etc) waves. It will carry on like that until it is done with us.

There is surely enough evidence of this in other parts of the world, and most recently in Spain. Admittedly, the virus would have been slowed down quicker had there been an earlier lockdown in the UK, but that would simply have left more people to be infected at a later date.

You're making the assumption that there's lasting immunity. This remains unproven. There's no option to let the virus 'run free' - nobody, anywhere in the world, considers that a realistic proposition.

Even the Uber-capitalists in the United States are finding that restrictions are required.

Yeah, if it worked! Boris fell for the civil service hype. They cannot keep to deadlines or what is expected of them for the life of them! I'm glad to see that a purge is on the cards.

Any further lockdown should be targeted and focussed on 'at risk' groups. A total lockdown is taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

A further lockdown, or indeed lockdowns, will be of the size and scale necessary to suppress the virus at that time. That depends on the numbers in the community - not some flawed ideological belief that people will continue to spend money while they lose jobs and risk their health carrying out normal day to day business.

[nashville]

I have bought the face shields as I feel you can breath better,

[nomadking]

The problem is too many people are behaving as if there isn't anything going on. Too many people partying etc. Too many people attending non-essential gatherings. If people were more cautious, here and on holiday abroad, things might ease up.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:21 ----------

Originally Posted by nashville

I have bought the face shields as I feel you can breath better,

Do they help with anything but face-to-face encounters? Eg If somebody is behind you, are you still protected from their exhaled breath? Mind you, the issue should be academic, if everybody else is wearing face masks, shields, or coverings.


Not sure they should be the first choice. Only use when a mask isn't an option.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The problem is too many people are behaving as if there isn't anything going on. Too many people partying etc. Too many people attending non-essential gatherings. If people were more cautious, here and on holiday abroad, things might ease up.

Indeed, and normal behaviour has an inevitable outcome which is where the Government will inevitably step in.

Boris himself said it in statement of 16 March - we need to minimise social contact and avoid unnecessary travel. These things are as true today as they were then.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Yet now they are saying if we'd done it earlier it'd have been shorter, and easier to test, trace and isolate.

Instead we've got the second wave coming and Boris hasn't ruled out a second national lockdown. Indeed, he's already talking it up as a bold, drastic measure, a bit patriotic too like the nuclear deterrent.

If this pandemic tracks anything like the 1918 one then yes, a second wave is coming in early October:



This is interesting reading:

https://khn.org/news/fact-check-is-a...avirus-coming/

It gives some analysis why this pandemic may not have the same profile as Spanish Flu but you never know ...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The fact remains that the likes of Prof Whittey, by his own admission, were advising the government against an early lockdown. The government accepted that advice - why would they not?

Unless you let the virus run free in the population, we will continue to get second, third, fourth (etc) waves. It will carry on like that until it is done with us.

There is surely enough evidence of this in other parts of the world, and most recently in Spain. Admittedly, the virus would have been slowed down quicker had there been an earlier lockdown in the UK, but that would simply have left more people to be infected at a later date.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------



Yeah, if it worked! Boris fell for the civil service hype. They cannot keep to deadlines or what is expected of them for the life of them! I'm glad to see that a purge is on the cards.

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------



Any further lockdown should be targeted and focussed on 'at risk' groups. A total lockdown is taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------



Hopefully, this will apply only to mainland Spain. It would be foolish to include the Canaries if their infection rates were acceptable.

That statement is not based in reality, only in your rabid fealty to BJ/DC, and your apparent belief they can do know wrong.

He has form in promising things that have no basis in reality - remember the Social Care promise, in his first public speech after winning the Tory Leadership/becoming PM?

Boris Johnson promised to fix the social care crisis ‘once and for all’ as he stood on the steps of Downing Street yesterday.

In his first speech as Prime Minister, Mr Johnson vowed to protect elderly people from the ‘fear’ of having to sell their homes to pay sky-high care bills.

He claimed he had a clear plan of action to give every older person the ‘dignity and security they deserve’.

Then in January this year, this happened

Boris Johnson has admitted he does not have a worked-up plan to end the social care crisis and that a solution could be five years away.

In a BBC interview, the prime minister backtracked on his pre-election claim to have a ready-to-go rescue package – instead, saying he would be “bringing forward a proposal” later this year.

Asked for a date for action to finally be taken to improve social care, Mr Johnson said: “We will certainly do it in this parliament” – prompting the interviewer to point out: “That’s five years away"

BJ asked the EU for a three-month delay to Brexit, having previously said he would rather be "dead in a ditch".

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Coronavirus: Spain added to England's quarantine list
How many people are going to get caught out by that?

Ironically, the Transport Minister, Grant Shapps has been.

GRANT SHAPPS will have to quarantine for two weeks when he arrives back in the UK from Spain, the Department for Transport has confirmed, after coronavirus travel advice was changed by the Government.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13...OVID-19-update

---------- Post added at 00:16 ---------- Previous post was at 00:11 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

l thought it was supposed to be world beating.

Put it this way, it's not made it onto Russia's to-hack list.

---------- Post added at 00:20 ---------- Previous post was at 00:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

BJ asked the EU for a three-month delay to Brexit, having previously said he would rather be "dead in a ditch".

Somewhat morbidly, he came closer to delivering on that promise than many others.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

If this pandemic tracks anything like the 1918 one then yes, a second wave is coming in early October:



This is interesting reading:

https://khn.org/news/fact-check-is-a...avirus-coming/

It gives some analysis why this pandemic may not have the same profile as Spanish Flu but you never know ...

This is not 1918 and it is not the flu (as I am continually reminded). Although a US slanted article it says as much and advises

The patterns in mutations and seasonality suggest that the coronavirus may not follow the wave patterns of the 1918 flu. Instead, the spread of the coronavirus may follow something more like a plateau, with spikes possible if social distancing isn’t adhered to fully.

I think that is more like what we are, and will be, seeing.

I certainly see no evidence for a large scale 2nd wave In the UK akin to April/May of this year.

[jfman]

That’s the thing though - it’s not like it’s going to give us a sign saying it’s coming in two weeks and make some plans.

Boris claiming everything will be back to normal by Christmas (relatively) begs the question what changes between now and then? Does test, trace, isolate have the capacity to quickly identify cases and their close contacts?

If it does not and people behave “relatively” normal then in the absence of divine intervention it’d take a second wave a small number of weeks to escalate out of control from “everything is fine” - let’s call that January 31 and “lockdown” on March 23.

The push to get people back into offices, back onto public transport and back into pubs and restaurants all the while schools are in easily has the potential for the 700 cases a day England are reporting to become a few thousand per day in the pre-symptomatic phase. Where’s the mitigation?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Expect the action to be repeated for other countries when outbreaks happen.

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------



I believe so, along with the Balearics.

Tbh anyone booking an abroad holiday in the middle of this is bonkers. Plenty of lovely places in this country. Staying in the UK for one summer isn't a great hardship and would give the economy some help. We voted for self isolation in 2016, so get used to staycations, as going abroad will be more expensive/complicated, even without a pandemic.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Hopefully, this will apply only to mainland Spain. It would be foolish to include the Canaries if their infection rates were acceptable.

Agreed. I think confusingly isolation instructions are at country level, but travel instructions are more precise.

All travellers from Spain to the UK must self-isolate at home for two weeks, the Department for Transport (DfT) has announced.
In addition, the Foreign Office says mainland Spain poses “an unacceptably high risk for British travellers,” and now advises against all non-essential travel there – but not the Balearic and Canary Islands.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9638176.html

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Tbh anyone booking an abroad holiday in the middle of this is bonkers. Plenty of lovely places in this country. Staying in the UK for one summer isn't a great hardship and would give the economy some help. We voted for self isolation in 2016, so get used to staycations, as going abroad will be more expensive/complicated, even without a pandemic.

The wifes brother and his family were booked for Spain in a few weeks, they are now hurriedly trying to 're-book' or alter their holiday destination to Greece
. . . like that's a good idea


Sun, Sea, Sangria and Covid

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Tbh anyone booking an abroad holiday in the middle of this is bonkers. Plenty of lovely places in this country. Staying in the UK for one summer isn't a great hardship and would give the economy some help. We voted for self isolation in 2016, so get used to staycations, as going abroad will be more expensive/complicated, even without a pandemic.

Apart from the all to predictable Brexit dig, I agree. We shelved any plans for a foreign holiday late Feb.