31-05-2025, 19:23
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#436
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
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Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I call it as I find it. The Conservatives are in a mess, there's no too ways about that. Same with Labour.
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Perhaps you underestimate the amount of waste the taxpayers are expected to fund.
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We have trade deals with individual States and of course the recent deal on tariffs. Look at the predicament of the EU.
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All parties experience this sort of annoying problem.
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At least I am not a dreamer. I say things as I see them. Some live in the past.
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I'm not inflicting anything on anyone. Perhaps you should clarify what the hell you are talking about.
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No, we don’t - we have Memorandums of Understanding with seven States, and as was previously stated
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5804
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the Participants, in the spirit of promoting closer relationships, intend to further support and work co-operatively within the boundaries of existing laws and treaties in their respective jurisdictions on goals and issues as set forth below.
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This MOU is not legally binding under state, national, or international law and does not create any legal obligation to carry out or to financially support any activity.
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The U.S. Constitution, through the Commerce Clause, gives Congress exclusive power over trade activities between the states and with foreign countries…
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31-05-2025, 20:21
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#437
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Rise above the players
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
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OK, memoranda of understanding, then! 
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31-05-2025, 21:24
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#438
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
OK, memoranda of understanding, then! |
There’s a very important difference - Trade Deals are contractual arrangement between states concerning their trade relationships, whilst an MoU is a non-binding agreement between parties, typically to outline their intentions, goals, and potential areas of cooperation.
One is legally binding, the other isn’t…
The seven States don’t have any Trade Deals with the U.K. as only Congress can legally do this.
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01-06-2025, 15:06
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#439
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
There’s a very important difference - Trade Deals are contractual arrangement between states concerning their trade relationships, whilst an MoU is a non-binding agreement between parties, typically to outline their intentions, goals, and potential areas of cooperation.
One is legally binding, the other isn’t…
The seven States don’t have any Trade Deals with the U.K. as only Congress can legally do this.
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I know. It was a work around as Biden was not interested in full blown trade deals.
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01-06-2025, 15:21
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#440
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I know. It was a work around as Biden was not interested in full blown trade deals.
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It's not "a work around" if it isn't signed off trade deal, it's a piece of paper full of good intentions that cannot be fulfilled as only Congress can sign off Trade Deals with other countries.
In case you have forgotten, you posted
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We have trade deals with individual States
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We don't...
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01-06-2025, 19:04
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#441
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Correct, individual States in the US do not have the power to conduct trade deals with other countries, that being a prerogative of Congress. At best a State might have some negotiate some arrangement to remove some ‘red tape, work towards improving communication etc. But that’s it.
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01-06-2025, 19:57
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#442
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
It's not "a work around" if it isn't signed off trade deal, it's a piece of paper full of good intentions that cannot be fulfilled as only Congress can sign off Trade Deals with other countries.
In case you have forgotten, you posted
We don't...
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Jeez! Your pedantic ways are getting worse by the day!
If the memoranda of understanding results in increased trade, it is a trade deal, but not the type of trade deal we’ve negotiated with India, etc. That’s as I see it, anyhow.
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01-06-2025, 20:03
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#443
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Jeez! Your pedantic ways are getting worse by the day!
If the memoranda of understanding results in increased trade, it is a trade deal, but not the type of trade deal we’ve negotiated with India, etc. That’s as I see it, anyhow.
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In other words you prefer to re-imagine what things mean so that they mean what you think.
That’s not how language works, sorry. Humans are able to communicate using language because language has agreed definitions of terms. ‘Trade deal’ and ‘memorandum of understanding’ are entirely different things. The former creates a set of rules. The latter expresses a set of wishes and aspirations. The former is enforceable. The latter is not even intended to be enforced.
A memorandum of understanding does not magically become a trade deal when the parties to it choose to honour each other’s wishes, any more than your mum’s Corsa becomes a McLaren F1 just because you took it on a track day at Silverstone.
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01-06-2025, 20:06
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#444
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Rise above the players
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
In other words you prefer to re-imagine what things mean so that they mean what you think.
That’s not how language works, sorry. Humans are able to communicate using language because language has agreed definitions of terms. ‘Trade deal’ and ‘memorandum of understanding’ are entirely different things. The former creates a set of rules. The latter expresses a set of wishes and aspirations. The former is enforceable. The latter is not even intended to be enforced.
A memorandum of understanding does not magically become a trade deal when the parties to it choose to honour each other’s wishes, any more than your mum’s Corsa becomes a McLaren F1 just because you took it on a track day at Silverstone.
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I don’t indulge in pedantry, Chris. You just love this, don’t you?
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01-06-2025, 20:13
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#445
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I don’t indulge in pedantry, Chris. You just love this, don’t you?
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What you indulge in is speaking authoritatively on matters you don’t understand, then trying to wriggle off the hook when you get called out.
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01-06-2025, 22:41
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#446
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Dr Pepper Addict
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
If the memoranda of understanding results in increased trade, it is a trade deal
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No, its a "memoranda of understanding".
If it were a Trade Deal, then it would be called a "Trade Deal". 
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02-06-2025, 08:01
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#447
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The Invisible Woman
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
What you indulge in is speaking authoritatively on matters you don’t understand, then trying to wriggle off the hook when you get called out.
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02-06-2025, 18:14
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#448
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Back to Reform UK.
In Scotland, Reform UK today welcomed two defecting councillors. One ex Conservative in the morning and one ex Labour in the afternoon.
https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scottis...s-to-reform-uk
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02-06-2025, 18:16
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#449
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vox populi vox dei
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
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i can understand a conservative defecting but what has reform got in common with labour values
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02-06-2025, 19:38
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#450
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Rise above the players
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
No, its a "memoranda of understanding".
If it were a Trade Deal, then it would be called a "Trade Deal". |
It’s a deal, and it relates to trade.
I am not disputing that it’s nowhere near the full blown trade deal that the Conservatives had drafted while Trump was President previously.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
i can understand a conservative defecting but what has reform got in common with labour values
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Reform UK have supported nationalisation, abolishing the two-child cap, and restoring the winter fuel payments for a start. Plus, Reform UK have not only made the Conservatives nervous, but Labour and the SNP too.
You will find a lot more defections to Reform UK over the next four years.
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