[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Just think though if we stay in, the migrant crisis is gonna hit Europe hard and all it takes is for the UK (which we're not in Schengen) to vote against those who want to spread the migrants about to force in the future yet a greater deal for us without us accepting any migrants currently floating in Europe

I've been on the in/out fence for a bit, As a business I can see the monetary benefits (which do outweigh the monetary costs) yet also see the inane rules forced on us. Currently I'd vote in... but only just..

If we stay in the EU, the EU courts will decide what action we can take with regard to migrants, which means we cannot reject EU migrants.

If we leave the EU, UK courts will decide.

I prefer the latter as it gives us greater power to act on immigration.

There is little if any real support for the UK in the EU. If the UK leaves the EU it will be interesting to see what happens to all the migrants. If they come here we can expel them as there won't be an EU court compelling us to keep them.

The only way to get back control is to leave the EU because then the UK government and courts will be the ones making the decisions rather than being dependent on the vitually non-existent support for the UK from other EU countries.

I really hope the other EU leaders reject Cameron's ideas so that we can leave and get on with running our own country ourselves.

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by ntluser

If we stay in the EU, the EU courts will decide what action we can take with regard to migrants, which means we cannot reject EU migrants.

If we leave the EU, UK courts will decide.
.

There is no EU law that states we must take migrants. So the EU courts can not force migrants on us. The rules do state that the first country of entry into the EU are the ones forced to accept them. The only way they can get here without UK acceptance is for the country of entry to provide them citizenship and an EU passport which few want to do...

Gawd there's so much scaremongering in this thread...

Britain is in a very strong position regarding these migrants, if it wasn't then the Jungle in Calais wouldn't exist.

[Osem]

@ NTL User - As huge as it is, the migration problem is really only the latest manifestation of what's fundamentally wrong with the EU. I don't think leaving the EU on its own will be a panacea for migration (or other problems either) since, IIRC, we'd still be answerable under the ECHR unless we choose to withdraw from that also which we cold do regardless of our EU membership.

[TheDaddy]

I think I'm now more out than in....

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Osem

@ NTL User - As huge as it is, the migration problem is really only the latest manifestation of what's fundamentally wrong with the EU. I don't think leaving the EU on its own will be a panacea for migration (or other problems either) since, IIRC, we'd still be answerable under the ECHR unless we choose to withdraw from that also which we cold do regardless of our EU membership.

Correct Osem. We would have to withdraw from that as well. It is our own Human Rights act that is causing the biggest problem in that regard.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

There is no EU law that states we must take migrants. So the EU courts can not force migrants on us. The rules do state that the first country of entry into the EU are the ones forced to accept them. The only way they can get here without UK acceptance is for the country of entry to provide them citizenship and an EU passport which few want to do...

Gawd there's so much scaremongering in this thread...

Britain is in a very strong position regarding these migrants, if it wasn't then the Jungle in Calais wouldn't exist.

If the first country of entry has to accept migrants why are the French not accepting all the migrants in Calais who are currently trying to get through the Channel Tunnel.

It does appear that many EU countries are simply allowing them access through their country and routing them on to the next country.

There is no law forcing us to accept migrants but as Greece and Italy have found out a law is not necessary when thousands of migrants can simply land on your beaches in the early hours of the morning and as the first country of entry you are expected to look after them. And who is to to say what laws the EU will make in future given that EU law takes precedence over national laws.

Matters are further complicated when some migrants have turned out to be terrorists, so being careful as to who you admit is not scaremongering it is common sense. If it comes to that there has been lots of scaremongering as to how bad things will be for the UK outside the EU, especially when one German minister threatens a trade war if we leave the EU.

We also have to bear in mind that 5% of our working population are out of work and the arrival of further migrants will simply make their task of finding a job much harder. There is also the matter of the pressure their arrival puts on housing, education and other public services like the NHS.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by ntluser

If the first country of entry has to accept migrants why are the French not accepting all the migrants in Calais who are currently trying to get through the Channel Tunnel.

It does appear that many EU countries are simply allowing them access through their country and routing them on to the next country.

There is no law forcing us to accept migrants but as Greece and Italy have found out a law is not necessary when thousands of migrants can simply land on your beaches in the early hours of the morning and as the first country of entry you are expected to look after them. And who is to to say what laws the EU will make in future given that EU law takes precedence over national laws.

Matters are further complicated when some migrants have turned out to be terrorists, so being careful as to who you admit is not scaremongering it is common sense. If it comes to that there has been lots of scaremongering as to how bad things will be for the UK outside the EU, especially when one German minister threatens a trade war if we leave the EU.

We also have to bear in mind that 5% of our working population are out of work and the arrival of further migrants will simply make their task of finding a job much harder. There is also the matter of the pressure their arrival puts on housing, education and other public services like the NHS.

Therein lies the difference between EU rules and reality. In many ways their mind-set reminds me of King Cnut...

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Well put it this, if Cameron caves into taking more Migrants. Don't you think the British will be up in arms over the benefit system.

Migrants will get treated better, than our own people.

Wasn't it several years ago, when Migrants were allowed to settle in Scotland. And got better treatments than the Scots.

I may be wrong, but that's what l was told. And l have Scottish relatives.

Some were moved to Easterhouse

If they were moved to Easterhouse, they weren't being treated better than the Scots* - trust me on that one...

*unless Easterhouse has improved beyond all recognition in the last couple of decades - it was like Beirut, without the sunshine and friendly natives...

[Osem]

Looks like Gove is going to back the out campaign.

Anyway, I think the Belgium PM has done the 'Out' team talk for us:

Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel says all the efforts going into the EU reform negotiations will be for naught if the British people vote to leave the European Union in a referendum.

Michel insisted no other member nation should be able to use a possible reform deal Friday as a stepping stone for getting more national exemptions.

"My message is clear: if the British say no in the referendum the text will automatically evaporate. We cannot allow other nations to use the texts as a basis to relaunch a hostile action against Europe," he said.

Michel added: "There are no second chances."

"Let's be clear it is not possible to have such a show again in the coming months or years with a permanent doubt hovering over Europe."

http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...ial-regulation

These people are insane.

Right now we are seeing why the EU doesn't and can't work, if we needed any more evidence. It's too big and involved in far too much. The bigger it gets and the more competing views and interests there are, the slower and more complex everything becomes. Of course all that demands yet more Eurocrats with their noses at the Euro-trough...

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Gawd there's so much scaremongering in this thread...

Understatement of the week

[denphone]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Understatement of the week

Cable Forum thrives on it.

[richard s]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Well put it this, if Cameron caves into taking more Migrants. Don't you think the British will be up in arms over the benefit system.

Migrants will get treated better, than our own people.

Wasn't it several years ago, when Migrants were allowed to settle in Scotland. And got better treatments than the Scots.

I may be wrong, but that's what l was told. And l have Scottish relatives.

Some were moved to Easterhouse

Yes old bean it is happening right now. Lets tread on a Brit-Born Native... crap country with live in.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Well put it this, if Cameron caves into taking more Migrants. Don't you think the British will be up in arms over the benefit system.

Migrants will get treated better, than our own people.

Wasn't it several years ago, when Migrants were allowed to settle in Scotland. And got better treatments than the Scots.

I may be wrong, but that's what l was told. And l have Scottish relatives.

Some were moved to Easterhouse

You do realise that we are a nation whose ancestors may well be immigrants..including the Royal family.No country/nation has ever managed to survive without immigrants.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

http://news.sky.com/story/1645193/li...eal-on-uk-done