economic migrants

[Enterian]

Originally Posted by basa

Surely the crux of the matter is that any would be migrant to this country should be able to demonstrate one of two things:

A). They can prove they will make a positive economic benefit to this country i.e. they have a proper job (not just helping out in their cousins shop or take away !) or skills that are in shortage here. They should be able to support themselves from day 1.

B). They are genuinely escaping a repressive regime and this is their first safe country of landing.

Illegal immigrants (and by that I mean those who sneak on lorries or ships etc clandestinely or otherwise attempt to disguise their entry) should be held in secure accommodation until they can be returned from whence they came and no claims for asylum (or other forms of permanent residency) should be accepted from those who attempt to enter this country illegally (if their claim was justified they should not attempt to enter secretly).

I quite agree, but can I add, that if they should be found guilty of a criminal act whilst in this country, they should forefit rights of entry and be deported immediately.

[basa]

Originally Posted by Defiant

YEA nice intergration innit. Lets learn about your own country hmm

I know what you mean Defiant...it bugs me when I hear immigrants speaking in their native tongues and I think to myself "bloody foreigners, come here and can't even be bothered to learn the language !!"

But, then I think, if I emigrated to, say, Spain, I know I wouldn't suddenly adopt Spanish as my first language, I would speak to my family in English and speak Spanish only when talking to Spaniards.

I wonder how long term immigrants go on speaking native to other family members but English outside ?? Do they ever get mixed up ??

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Defiant

Er no. Unfortunately there are people mostly of Asian background I find that were born here yet insist on speaking Arabic in public.

Interesting to hear you say that Asians speak Arabic... Most Asians I know would be massively offended to be compared to arabs in that way.

Also, I have a few Asian friends. They (my friends) tend to speak English when dealing with people outside their family, but their own language (whatever it is) when speaking to their own family.

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by basa

I know what you mean Defiant...it bugs me when I hear immigrants speaking in their native tongues and I think to myself "bloody foreigners, come here and can't even be bothered to learn the language !!"

I think you will find defiant is talking about chilldren of people who moved over here in the 50s

So what he is saying is he does not like people speaking their second language in front of him or to each other.....as they are in fact UK citizens with English as their first language

Good luck to em, we cant have a world full of lazy people speaking english all the time!

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by scastle

Also, I have a few Asian friends. They (my friends) tend to speak English when dealing with people outside their family, but their own language (whatever it is) when speaking to their own family.

Sounds reasnable to me.......I dont understand why people have such a problem with this although i suspect it is plain old paranoia that they are talking about you !!!!

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by basa

I know what you mean Defiant...it bugs me when I hear immigrants speaking in their native tongues and I think to myself "bloody foreigners, come here and can't even be bothered to learn the language !!"

<snip>

So is it that they are speaking a non european tongue, or a foreign language or both.
Do you think the same when you hear a group of French or German or Italians speaking in a bar to each other in their native language.
If they were speaking with an Australian, Kiwi or American accent would you think they should speak in your native accent as well as your native tongue. Should they make sure they speak 'local' english. Ask for a bottle of beer, not a stubbie for example.

I am told that even if you appear fluent in a language to others you can really only consider yourself truely fluent when you are able to think in that language and do not go back to your native language. That takes many years.

Personally I feel my life is richer for all the 'bloody foreigners' in this country whatever language they speak when they talk to each other.

Originally Posted by aliferste

So what he is saying is he does not like people speaking their second language

glad to see you agree with me that they dont class this as there real home

[basa]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

So is it that they are speaking a non european tongue, or a foreign language or both.
Do you think the same when you hear a group of French or German or Italians speaking in a bar to each other in their native language.
If they were speaking with an Australian, Kiwi or American accent would you think they should speak in your native accent as well as your native tongue. Should they make sure they speak 'local' english. Ask for a bottle of beer, not a stubbie for example.

I am told that even if you appear fluent in a language to others you can really only consider yourself truely fluent when you are able to think in that language and do not go back to your native language. That takes many years.

Personally I feel my life is richer for all the 'bloody foreigners' in this country whatever language they speak when they talk to each other.

Exactly the point I was trying (and obviously failing !!) to make was it is unreasonable to expect any 'bloody' :p foreigners to speak English within their own family group if it is not their first language !!

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Defiant

glad to see you agree with me that they dont class this as there real home

Erm, he said:

Originally Posted by aliferste

So what he is saying is he does not like people speaking their second language in front of him or to each other.....as they are in fact UK citizens with English as their first language

If they are UK Citizens, and English is their first language, then surely this is their home.

Originally Posted by scastle

Erm, he said:


If they are UK Citizens, and English is their first language, then surely this is their home.

But they still class there second language as home. I only have time for people that integrate and speak English in this country. The only time I accept people speaking other languages infront of me is there here on holiday. Its called manners.

I've said this before as an example but remember one of those detainee's in Cuba. The one that was on a Microsoft training course in Afghanistan ( Yea like we believe )


Well the New's interviewed his mother on Granada Reports. She's lived in this country for 30yrs but they have to get her kids to translate

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Defiant

glad to see you agree with me that they dont class this as there real home

Its got nothing to do with home..........of course this is their home ....it just so happens that they have a second language and actually use it

[kronas]

Originally Posted by aliferste

Its got nothing to do with home..........of course this is their home ....it just so happens that they have a second language and actually use it

that is true the majorty of people who come to this country can already speak some english to communicate with workers im talking about skilled workers who come to take jobs in this country where posts are unfilled

Originally Posted by Escapee

I understood that economic migrants were the ones who chose to come here for there own economics and not to help the economics of this country!

yes they do help this country they help its economy there was a link somewhere that highlighted how many millions or billions are pumped in to this country

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by kronas

that is true the majorty of people who come to this country can already speak some english to communicate with workers im talking about skilled workers who come to take jobs in this country where posts are unfilled






yes they do help this country they help its economy there was a link somewhere that highlighted how many millions or billions are pumped in to this country

Yes everyone who pays tax helps the economy, as long as they are putting more in than they are taking out it helps us.

It just looked like you were saying when reading between the lines that these people were saying to themselves "lets go and help the UK's economy by working there"

I am not racist etc when it comes to any nationalities, because I have always said scroungers come in all shapes and colours and many were born here with a long line of family before them. The only difference with scroungers coming into the country is they should be stopped.

I have gone off topic a bit I know, but I wonder what percentage of peopel entering this country are helping the economy and how many are scrounging!
We all know I suppose we will never get the true answer to that because both sides of the argument will produce their own spin.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by kronas

yes they do help this country they help its economy there was a link somewhere that highlighted how many millions or billions are pumped in to this country

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2019385.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3266855.stm

Quite detailed and even handed IMHO.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by kronas

yes they do help this country they help its economy there was a link somewhere that highlighted how many millions or billions are pumped in to this country

I read somewhere that economic migrants from the poorer countries are sending a huge amount of money out of the UK so it's not benefiting our economy.