Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?

[lemarsh]

Have to say that i have Sky+, having swapped from NTL for TV about 2 years ago.

NTL are way behind with their interactive stuff - I remember in the days of Nynex & Cable&Wireless (memories.....) that they were to have the interactive sport like sky within a few months (months to years.....).

However, you can't really blame Sky as such - it is down to NTL to negotiate the deal with Sky during contract renewals. Sky have a service, which NTL are not willing to pay the price asked (not getting into the argument of who's fault).

Additionally, Sky & NTL are competitors - they need somethings to differentiate themselves from the competition - and 'add-ons' are as good a way as any.

However, with regard to Sky Broadband - as said before - it aint worth the money - even though its free. Had it, didn't like it, got rid of it, and then spent the next month trying to get rid of KService. My recommendation, even if you are a sky customer - leave it alone!

[EvilRix]

Not wanting to rub salt into the womb but as a Sky subscriber with NTL broadband I've just signed up to Sky by broadband and can confirm it's cool

Yet another reason not to use NTL's abysmal TV service!

I have sky digital and NTL broadband and I have used sky by broadband and it's a load of rubish!

Takes ages to download anything even with a 10MB connection, plust it drains your bandwidth even when your not using it!

The movies available for download ain't that hot either!

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by EvilRix

Not wanting to rub salt into the womb but as a Sky subscriber with NTL broadband I've just signed up to Sky by broadband and can confirm it's cool

Yet another reason not to use NTL's abysmal TV service!

Sky by Broadband seems (to me) to be a pale but expensive (well, it would be for me assuming I had Sky as I have no interest in the movie channels, and little in the sports channels) immitation of a video on demand service.

[RamJet]

maybe ive got the wrong end of the plug -

- I thought if I could get Sky by Broadband on my laptop I cd take it to work and see the test cricket

bt someone's told me it only works on the home phone line anyway ? ? ?

RJ

Originally Posted by RamJet

maybe ive got the wrong end of the plug -

- I thought if I could get Sky by Broadband on my laptop I cd take it to work and see the test cricket

bt someone's told me it only works on the home phone line anyway ? ? ?

RJ

Sky By Broadband is a crap version of vod.

It does not allow the watching of programs in real time.

It only allows films or sport to be downloaded from a list that is on the sky by broadband portal.

You can only use it on the PC that it is registered to and that pc only."heavy DRM"

It always runs uploading to other users when you have finished your download "p2p"

When you decided to remove the worthless junk you then have a hard time to remove it as it acts like a spy ware ridden p2p client.

[dilli-theclaw]

Originally Posted by RamJet

maybe ive got the wrong end of the plug -

- I thought if I could get Sky by Broadband on my laptop I cd take it to work and see the test cricket

bt someone's told me it only works on the home phone line anyway ? ? ?

RJ

No - I download films onto my laptop and take them to work all the time - but as Bill says you havet to install it on the machine you're going to take with you.

You can watch whatever you've downloaded for so long without an internet connection.

[ppolo99]

yeah i had it a while ago, is cool. but when you change ip address it wont like you. i had it at my old house, now i cant says im having it in 2 places. cant be bothered phoning them up. ahh well

[Neil]

Originally Posted by RamJet

I agree with all you say

I pay the full amount to NTL yet I only get *part* of the product - itz all very well to say go to SKY direct 4 TV but where I am now I have a flat with the usual legal restrictions about no dishes . . . which is rigidly enforced

What you get is everything that you pay ntl for.

ntl as a company don't offer anything over & above Sky Movies on your STB.

If you want a product that is offered by another company-I.E Sky Movies by broadband, then you get it from a company that offers it-I.E. Sky.

Originally Posted by RamJet

probably a million people in UK live under a similar lease restriction so I feel I am fully entitled to the full service

What you feel isn;t relevant here, the fact is that you are getting a product from ntl & not Sky.

Originally Posted by RamJet

Cable was supposed to have interative content with many channels.

Again, take that up with ntl.

Originally Posted by RamJet

I cant have a dish - pay the full amount - yet get an inferior service.

RJ

That's ntl's doing, not Sky's.

[RamJet]

Originally Posted by Neil

Again, take that up with ntl.

well I am taking it all up with NTL >>> by writing it all here ! !

*they* read all this no doubt and a summary gets to someone *important* at *NTL* each morning - so much better targeted to do it this way rather than get fobbed off by customer services

also *they* get to see the strength of feeling amongst users and this no doubt goes in their daily report

ps : thats what happened with Sky Sports Extra and how we were able to get it !

RJ

[EvilRix]

Ok, I know this is now going a little off topic but I think it's important for anyone considering Sky by broadband to read the following...

Sky really have been naughty. They install a P2P service called KService. You can only turn this off from the service admin screen or from CLI using "net stop KService" but it has a nasty habit of restarting when you reboot, even with the service set to manual (set it to disabled and the Sky client refuses to start). This is because there is also a start-up hook in the registry set to run a program called KHost that restarts the service. Runing MSConfig and removing the KHost hook is no good because when you run the Sky client it re-enters the hook in the registry, restarting KHost and KService! Also, you can't rely on the XP firewall to protect you because KService adds itself as an exception. As for removing it, it's not as simple as just running an uninstall but rather you need to download and run a tool called KClean (http://www.sky.com/skybybroadband/articles/article04). Is it me or does this smack of malware?

None of this is made clear in Sky's T&C's, in fact this is the sole mention made to P2P...

"Uploading Content - If you download and save content to your computer system (a "File"), during the license period for the relevant File, we may upload parcels of content from the File from your computer system for the purpose of transferring Files to other users of the Service."

The FAQa don't say much either... http://www.sky.com/skybybroadband/faqs

Given that Sky install a P2P client/server that runs all the time and uses bandwidth (and potentially costs you money and maybe gets you into hot water with your ISP) that you can't remove without downloading another tool I really don't think this is good enough. Sky deserve to be rapped serverely over the knuckles for this!

[moon_t]

I quite liked the look of the SKY extras, so strangely enough, I joined SKY 2 days ago, I have to agree that you can't expect SKY to provide all services to ntl customers, they are a business after all.

After 5 years on ntl the SKY package is a real breath of fresh air in comparison.

Now to see if ntl will upgrade my archaic ntl home 100 modem so I can use my allegedly 10mb connection. Hopefully ntl will try some customer service skills this time to keep a previously loyal customer for some of their services at least, or pigs may fly

[Neil]

Originally Posted by RamJet

well I am taking it all up with NTL >>> by writing it all here ! !

*they* read all this no doubt and a summary gets to someone *important* at *NTL* each morning - so much better targeted to do it this way rather than get fobbed off by customer services

also *they* get to see the strength of feeling amongst users and this no doubt goes in their daily report

They've been reading this forum for years-hell they even owned us at one stage.

Originally Posted by RamJet

ps : thats what happened with Sky Sports Extra and how we were able to get it !

Ok-well I hope you enjoy your Sky by Broadband via ntl in 2009 then.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by EvilRix

Ok, I know this is now going a little off topic but I think it's important for anyone considering Sky by broadband to read the following...

Sky really have been naughty. They install a P2P service called KService. You can only turn this off from the service admin screen or from CLI using "net stop KService" but it has a nasty habit of restarting when you reboot, even with the service set to manual (set it to disabled and the Sky client refuses to start). This is because there is also a start-up hook in the registry set to run a program called KHost that restarts the service. Runing MSConfig and removing the KHost hook is no good because when you run the Sky client it re-enters the hook in the registry, restarting KHost and KService! Also, you can't rely on the XP firewall to protect you because KService adds itself as an exception. As for removing it, it's not as simple as just running an uninstall but rather you need to download and run a tool called KClean (http://www.sky.com/skybybroadband/articles/article04). Is it me or does this smack of malware?

None of this is made clear in Sky's T&C's, in fact this is the sole mention made to P2P...

"Uploading Content - If you download and save content to your computer system (a "File"), during the license period for the relevant File, we may upload parcels of content from the File from your computer system for the purpose of transferring Files to other users of the Service."

The FAQa don't say much either... http://www.sky.com/skybybroadband/faqs

Given that Sky install a P2P client/server that runs all the time and uses bandwidth (and potentially costs you money and maybe gets you into hot water with your ISP) that you can't remove without downloading another tool I really don't think this is good enough. Sky deserve to be rapped serverely over the knuckles for this!

As I recall, Sky haven't been open at all about how this system works. The fact they haven't readily admitted to installing a service like this makes me wonder just how much else SBB transmits without the user realising.

You may be able to block the service with another firewall, but how many users are going to know how to do that? Also, does the client work with the service blocked? Probably not would be my guess.

I personally don't object to this method of delivery, but I do object to a company releasing a product like this not being open about how it works.

Anyone else think that if NTL had done something like this, certain people (who seem to be very pro SBB) would be complaining like mad?

[EvilRix]

I completely agree.

Sky have been well naughty with this. Fortunately I'm in a position to have the technical know-how to diagnose what Sky have done to my PC but as you say a lot of people are not in the same position. I think there are two issues here...

1) Sky do not make it clear what their software actually does (from the point of view of installing P2P with almost malware like behaviour that absolutely will not stop [excuse the T1 quote]) and the implications of installing it.

2) They have made it very hard for most people to remove once it's installed

As a disgruntled Sky customer I am already in the process of taking this further with both them and a rather well known consumer watchdog publication.

Ok, that's it I propose we bring this thread to a conclusion before it is in danger of going really off-topic o)