NHS Cuts

http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/k...ics-on-the-nhs

NHS spending has gone up by nearly 80% in 12 years - the population of the U.K. has increased by around 10% in the same time period.

Managers and senior managers accounted for 2.35 per cent of the 1.318 million staff employed by HCHS and GP services across the NHS in 2015.

Kings Fund Myth Busters

According to the Office for National Statistics, the proportion of managers in the UK workforce as a whole in June 2010 was 15.4 per cent. These statistics also show that there were 77,000 hospital and health service managers across the United Kingdom, or 4.8 per cent of the NHS workforce. In other words, the NHS has a managerial workforce that is one-third the size of that across the economy as a whole....

...Myth. The NHS in England is a £100 billion-a-year-plus business. It sees 1 million patients every 36 hours, spending nearly £2 billion a week. Aside from the banks, the only companies with a larger turnover in the FTSE 100 are the two global oil giants Shell and BP. If the NHS were a country it would be around the thirtieth largest in the world.

If anything, our analysis seems to suggest that the NHS, particularly given the complexity of health care, is under- rather than over-managed.

[Osem]

Maybe what's needed is more good managers and fewer inept ones? It might also help if those who fail miserably weren't re-recruited by the NHS somewhere else but it's hard to find out how common that is.

I still think a big problem is the outrageous cost of PFI and inefficiency in procurement which must inevitably impinge on the NHS's ability to deliver the required levels of service. An organisation the size of the NHS ought to be able to source equipment, supplies etc. at exceptionally keen prices but seems to do the opposite.

[nidave]

Originally Posted by Stuart

What, the £100m a week offer they now claim they never made? The first claim they've made that can be proved to be correct, as they claimed that the EU cost £395m a week that *could* (note that word) be spent on the NHS.

Yes it was £350 million not 100 million.. so how about

[Osem]

Well whatever the figure turns out to be, they can't allocate it to anything until they've saved it. Furthermore, when they do, it'll be up to HMG, largely the PM and the Chancellor of the Exchequer (both of whom were in the remain camp), to decide how any money is spent not those who actually made the claims.

Originally Posted by Osem

Well whatever the figure turns out to be, they can't allocate it to anything until they've saved it. Furthermore, when they do, it'll be up to HMG, largely the PM and the Chancellor of the Exchequer (both of whom were in the remain camp), to decide how any money is spent not those who actually made the claims.

Do you mean they made promises they couldn't carry through on?

Yes like all politicians since time began and anyone that voted the way they did based off the politicians rather then their own research deserves what they get really and there were probably equal groups on both sides who did that.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Do you mean they made promises they couldn't carry through on?

Promises? I'm not sure they promised anything - how could they? The caption highlighted above quotes "Let's give our NHS the £350m...." It doesn't say "If we win the vote we promise to spend £350m extra on the NHS".

Given that HMG was in favour of remaining, it was always going to be the case that the leave side would not be able to force the issue even if they won the argument and the vote. Even now HMG is not legally bound to do anything. The extent to which any promises some of the leave side made are carried through will only be known after the event at which point it'll be up to those who make the decisions to justify them and explain what happened to the claimed £350m which was indeed a central issue during the campaign. If it turns out that the actual savings are far less than claimed, Boris and those of his chums who went down that route will have been made to look more than a tad duplicitous and will have to face their critics and the electorate next time out.

Did anyone really think that the leave group would be handed ultimate power to force through their objectives in the event of them winning? Did they promise it would happen or were they arguing for it to happen? It's now up to the govt. to carry out the wishes of the majority and I'm sure that those who campaigned and voted for the money saved to be spent on the NHS will want to see that it is spent in that manner but they can hardly be blamed if May and Hammond think differently.

[Ken W]

My GP surgery has cut GP appointment on Wednesday and Friday pm, reason no doctor available which means cut backs.

[heero_yuy]

Perhaps if generation snowflake weren't filling surgeries with their snotty nosed children all the time or running to the doctor every time they grazed a knee or had a slight cold there might be a bit more resource to deal with real problems.

People used to know how to deal with minor ailments and first aid. Now they just run to the doctors or A&E. No surprise that the NHS is buckling under the strain.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Perhaps if generation snowflake weren't filling surgeries with their snotty nosed children all the time or running to the doctor every time they grazed a knee or had a slight cold there might be a bit more resource to deal with real problems.

People used to know how to deal with minor ailments and first aid. Now they just run to the doctors or A&E. No surprise that the NHS is buckling under the strain.

The major drive of NHS utilisation continues to be, by a mile, the elderly and an ageing population. Longer lives are not always healthier ones.

If 'Generation Snowflake' try to get emergency GP appointments for things like colds or grazed knees they generally get kicked back, or sent to a minor injuries unit. That's what receptionists are for, to police shorter term appointments.

[Osem]

The chief executive of a troubled NHS trust has quit over "media attention".
Katrina Percy said "the effect ongoing personal media attention has had on staff and patients" had made her position at Southern Health NHS Foundation Trust untenable.
Ms Percy had faced calls to quit after the trust was criticised over the way it investigated patient deaths.
An NHS England-commissioned probe found 272 of the 722 deaths over the last four years were dealt with properly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37221250

Ms Percy, who was chief executive for nine years, said she "firmly believed" it was her responsibility to stay on to "oversee improvements" and was taking on a new role providing "strategic advice to local GP leaders".
She said she understood why "many will say I should have stepped down sooner given the very public concerns which have been raised in the past months".
A spokeswoman for the trust said Ms Percy's salary - which is quoted in the trust's annual report as between £180,000 and £190,000 - will remain the same when she moves to the advisory role.

Nice work if you can get it eh?

---------- Post added at 13:36 ---------- Previous post was at 13:25 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Perhaps if generation snowflake weren't filling surgeries with their snotty nosed children all the time or running to the doctor every time they grazed a knee or had a slight cold there might be a bit more resource to deal with real problems.

People used to know how to deal with minor ailments and first aid. Now they just run to the doctors or A&E. No surprise that the NHS is buckling under the strain.

There's also the issue of overcautiousness IMHO. Whenever ambulances have been called to Osem Jnr #2 it seems to be the default position of crews to want to take him to A&E regardless of anything else. I understand why they do this but on almost all occasions it has proved entirely unnecessary and involved hours of waiting in already overstretched A&E depts. They'll argue it's precautionary which of course it is but there's an element of back covering too I believe. Quite understandably nobody wants to be accused of and possibly sued for negligence so the easiest option, if there's any doubt, gradually becomes to pass the buck and refer people on for treatment. Quite what the answer is I have no idea.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by nomadking

From 2006.


From 2008.
Not sure how Worcestershire Mental Health Partnership NHS Trust would be affected by the influx and not back in 2005.

From 2006
So chucking money at it didn't solve it,

Because that money was spent badly.

I remember all the hype about the large salary increases for nurses, enhanced contracts for GPs and so on where money was been thrown down the drain. Also that the extra money new labour provided was actually not enough anyway.

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/k...ics-on-the-nhs

NHS spending has gone up by nearly 80% in 12 years - the population of the U.K. has increased by around 10% in the same time period.

Managers and senior managers accounted for 2.35 per cent of the 1.318 million staff employed by HCHS and GP services across the NHS in 2015.

Kings Fund Myth Busters

The 80% doesnt mean its not underfunded. Also thats a central figure, often central figures hide regional problems. e.g. similar to the claims like immigration has no affect on availability of social housing, it doesnt when looking at nationwide stats, but does when looking at regional stats.

Finally my comments on budget increases are concentrating on the increases since labour lost power when the policy changed to "match inflation".

You picked your stats I pick mine.

The UK had 2.8 physicians per 1,000 people in 2013, compared to 4.1 in Germany, 3.9 in Italy, 3.8 in Spain, 3.4 in Australia, 3.3 in France, 2.8 in New Zealand and 2.6 in Canada.
The UK had 2.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people in 2013, compared to 8.3 in Germany, 6.3 in France, 3.1 in Denmark, 3.0 in Spain and 2.8 in New Zealand.
Average length of stay for all causes in the UK was 7.0 days in 2013. This compares to 17.2 in Japan, 9.1 in Germany, 7.7 in Italy, 7.6 in New Zealand, 6.6 in Spain and 5.6 in France.

[Osem]

Further to my post above there's this:

The chairman of a troubled NHS trust criticised for allowing its under-fire chief executive to move to another post on the same pay has resigned.
Last month Katrina Percy stepped down as head of Southern Health over "media attention" after it failed to investigate hundreds of deaths.
Interim chairman Tim Smart was criticised after it emerged a £240,000 a year post was "created for her".
The trust said he stepped down for "personal reasons".
In a statement the trust said: "Since his appointment in May this year, Tim has made a considerable contribution to the trust, driving through changes necessary to improve our services."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37410464

It'll be interesting, probably maddening, to find out where he winds up and what the details of any pay-off he gets will be.

We have just become over bloated with administrative staff we have no shortage of those and often they outnumber the actual service providers by a good distance. Labour are the worst ones for bloating the public sector always helps to massage figures when you can create jobs plus it makes your opponents look bad when they have to come in and clean up the mess. There's no shortage of cash in the UK there's just a lousy tendency to spend it badly and those ultimately responsible for bad spending seem to always get another job within the public sector.

If they want to do league tables lets have one's for the top level administrative staff so we can all see who spends it and what they spend it on. My guess is that some in the public sector who think nothing of blowing money at the moment wouldn't be quite so free with it if they could easily be identified and tied to the wasted money.

[Mr K]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-37499240
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-37499238
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-37499233

Step by step, and rather more quickly than predicted, the NHS is going bust. About time we all woke up and demanded our politicans act instead of being obsessed with Brexit. We need to properly fund it even if that means increased taxes and accept the NHS may have to cut back on what it offers.

If I was cynical, which of course I'm not , when it does collapse the Govt. will claim there's no alternative but to bring their private sector chums to the rescue. However that still isn't going to magically make nurses appear, particularly if they are EU citizens who we've said ta ta to or made clear they're not welcome.

I've been at a University open days recently , all subject talks seemed to be packed. However he nursing courses all looked to be deserted..... Withdrawal of bursaries was a cracking idea to solve the nursing recruitment crisis. We expect nurses to take out a massive loan to train and look after us, and get a very poor pay compared to other graduates at the end of it. I think the kids are very wise to avoid it and we are in big trouble whether in we go private or use the NHS.

The biggest mystery is why Jeremy Hunt still in post, and what is he doing, buying more healthcare shares ?