HD : Are these five channels encrypted on VM?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

My friend can then finally upgrade to HD

How can your non-TV subscriber friend upgrade to HD? I'm guessing by buying a new TV which decodes cable, DTC. In which case getting an aerial installed and a cheaper TV without the DTC facility may be a better option.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I would question where this 'unlawful to encrypt' thing comes from. As far as I can see there is a 'must carry' requirement on Virgin Media as part of all subscription levels however that isn't the same thing.

http://www.pedz.uni-mannheim.de/date...-mustcarry.pdf (this is from 2001)


I'm happy to be pointed in the direct of relevant information.

TiVo (which is Virgin Media's currently developed platform) works differently to the V boxes. You cannot have a non-subscription TiVo box, as the authorisation for services is internal to the box. TiVo doesn't rely on the Smartcard, and newly installed TiVo boxes do not come with one. Therefore you can't turn a TiVo box into a 'unencrypted only' box. It either is a subscribed box, or it's explicitly de-authorised.

In fact I'm pretty sure that where a customer is suspended, a permanent unremovable message is displayed over all channels on the TiVo box advising of an issue with the subscription. That's if the box can boot in the first place. It would also end up with box being unable to gain valid data from the TiVo data centre so the box would no longer display any EPG information.

I was told that the unlawful thing is because FTA carriage of PBS channels is a condition of the cable franchises. Not sure whether the franchises can be inspected by individuals, they may be commercialy sensitive

I guess his choice of words was poor, maybe unlawful was too strong when it really means being in breach of their franchise agreement. I can't imagine that anybody would be sent to prison, but rather that VM would be told to correct any breaches and if they failed to do so, ultimately they could lose any affected franchise areas.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

How can your non-TV subscriber friend upgrade to HD? I'm guessing by buying a new TV which decodes cable, DTC. In which case getting an aerial installed and a cheaper TV without the DTC facility may be a better option.

He already has a V HD box, but it can't currently show HD channels as these are encrypted.

I was hoping that he could start to view the PSB channels in HD (his eyesight is failing), but it seems that he will have to wait.

As he only uses BBC1, BBC News and Radio 4, which are all FTA in SD at no cost to him, he's happy with this arrangement and doesn't have to pay for a new aerial.

He's disabled and the Government have made savage cuts to disability benefits, so Pay TV had to go.

[OLD BOY]

I wish I had the SD version of Radio 4, Richard...!

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

In fact I'm pretty sure that where a customer is suspended, a permanent unremovable message is displayed over all channels on the TiVo box advising of an issue with the subscription.

IIRC that's exactly what happens. Channels 1-4 or in certain areas 5 are available with the overlay message.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I wish I had the SD version of Radio 4, Richard...!

Lol, well the BBC have done some HD radio broadcasts, I think it was Radio 3??

Originally Posted by pip08456

IIRC that's exactly what happens. Channels 1-4 or in certain areas 5 are available with the overlay message.

He's never mentioned any problems with anything like that.

When he first had his Pay TV cut off, I do remember him saying that iPlayer wouldn't work and that some messages were appearing on the screen. IIRC he had to press back up or something to get rid of it. I think that he said that he had to clear it everytime he changed channels, which isn't too bad as he only watches BBC1 & BBC News- I don't think that the radio stations had this, so his Radio 4 would be OK.

I guess it's the VM box that's causing this as it's expecting a valid viewing card to give it the ability to descramble the encrypted channels, I wouldn't have thought that non VM equipment would do this because, AFAIK, they can no longer decode the scrambled pay channels.

Yes, it was radio 3 in HD: http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/news/item46

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

He's never mentioned any problems with anything like that.

It's on TiVo where that happens, not on the V boxes.

But just as the ability to connect a TV to cable without a STB stopped when analogue ceased, the ability to run an de-authorised Virgin Media box won't be possible once the V box platform is withdrawn.

Unless there is any change to the regulations, which I have seen no indication that there will be in any news outlet, you choice once V boxes are withdrawn will either be have a valid Virgin TV subscription (even if there is no specific cost such as TV M), or receive your TV channels via another method.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Unless there is any change to the regulations, which I have seen no indication that there will be in any news outlet, you choice once V boxes are withdrawn will either be have a valid Virgin TV subscription (even if there is no specific cost such as TV M), or receive your TV channels via another method.

I guess that he will be ok as long as his V box carries on working. At that stage, he's probably better off getting an Amazon Fire TV stick and using the TV player app. Not HD but if his eyesight is declining as mine is then that will probably not be an issue.

[pip08456]

@BenMcr I wish you would check as AFIAK even Tivo boxes will allow reception of channels 1-4 (or 5) with the overlay message.

I could be wrong though.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by pip08456

@BenMcr I wish you would check as AFIAK even Tivo boxes will allow reception of channels 1-4 (or 5) with the overlay message.

I could be wrong though.

Yes, it would be interesting to find out. This is just my curiosity though, as I very much doubt that my friend will be upgraded to TiVo whilst not subscribing to any package at all

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I guess that he will be ok as long as his V box carries on working. At that stage, he's probably better off getting an Amazon Fire TV stick and using the TV player app. Not HD but if his eyesight is declining as mine is then that will probably not be an issue.

Well, I originally asked this question as I thought that the more detailed picture that HD offers might be better for my friend with his failing eyesight!

If he loses the TV service, he could probably get by with using his tablet as he has VM broadband. I keep thinking that this is the reason that they haven't yet reused his tap in the cabinet (unless they're completely separate).

Originally Posted by BenMcr

It's on TiVo where that happens, not on the V boxes.

But just as the ability to connect a TV to cable without a STB stopped when analogue ceased, the ability to run an de-authorised Virgin Media box won't be possible once the V box platform is withdrawn.

Unless there is any change to the regulations, which I have seen no indication that there will be in any news outlet, you choice once V boxes are withdrawn will either be have a valid Virgin TV subscription (even if there is no specific cost such as TV M), or receive your TV channels via another method.

So are they definitely going to withdraw the V HD boxes Ben? I remember when TiVo first came out that the CEO said that the TiVo software could be dropped onto the V boxes.

I have seen posts from people who claim to be able to connect digital cable to a TV that has a cable tuner for the FTA channels.

Is TV M still available (I thought i'd read that it had been phased out). My friend is thinking of getting one of those pendants that people put round their neck to alert Social Services in case of an emergency.

This needs a landline, so if he has to have that put back on, could he get the free TV M package? Would it still be 'free' if he has to take a TiVo?

They are coming to replace my V+ box tomorrow, which surprised me, I thought that they'd now be wanting everyone on TiVo (I don't take premium sports or movies).

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by pip08456

@BenMcr I wish you would check as AFIAK even Tivo boxes will allow reception of channels 1-4 (or 5) with the overlay message.

I could be wrong though.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Yes, it would be interesting to find out. This is just my curiosity though, as I very much doubt that my friend will be upgraded to TiVo whilst not subscribing to any package at all

Sorry what I meant was that on TiVo the channels will be shown but with the message.

That's because the channel source is currently the same across all STBs

My point was that you can't view them completely in the clear on TiVo as you can on the V boxes as on TiVo you cannot remove the overlay message.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

So are they definitely going to withdraw the V HD boxes Ben? I remember when TiVo first came out that the CEO said that the TiVo software could be dropped onto the V boxes.

In some respects it's already happening. As from last November you must have at least one TiVo box as part of any core bundle change that includes Virgin TV. So if you don't have TiVo, to make any change to your core bundle you need to take it.

And the older SA V+ HD boxes are currently being swapped out due to change to Sky Premiums HD.

I have no doubt that this sort of change will continue and the swap out activity will increase.

It's the same as happened with analogue. When Digital Cable was first introduced it was demand led i.e for new customers only. But as time went it was pushed deeper into bundles and services until eventually it was a required change in order to keep cable TV.

I have seen posts from people who claim to be able to connect digital cable to a TV that has a cable tuner for the FTA channels.

It may be possible but only because the channels are currently unencrypted.

If / when Virgin Media get to a point where all their customer reception equipment doesn't work without an active subscription and connection there will no need to keep them FTA, as you'll either be able to get them decrypted in your active subscription or the kit won't work.

This needs a landline, so if he has to have that put back on, could he get the free TV M package? Would it still be 'free' if he has to take a TiVo?

TV M is only currently available within bundles including broadband as far as I'm aware. And although there is still no specific cost for the channel line up itself, the TiVo fee does technically add £5 the cost - before any bundle calculation.

They are coming to replace my V+ box tomorrow, which surprised me, I thought that they'd now be wanting everyone on TiVo (I don't take premium sports or movies).

Fault swaps are still like for like (unless in the case of SD V boxes there aren't any left, in which case a V HD is installed instead)

[RichardCoulter]

Thanks for your advice Ben.

He already has broadband, so if he takes a phone for his social services pendant, he could have TV M for no extra cost (apart from the TiVo £5 fee)??

Do you know how much it will cost? He's on 20 Mbps broadband at the moment, I don't like to ask how much he pays, so don't know, but I can't imagine that it will be that much more with the TV being free and then the bundle discount being factored in.

[BenMcr]

The bundle with TV M is the Big Easy http://store.virginmedia.com/big-bun...utmore_bigeasy

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The bundle with TV M is the Big Easy http://store.virginmedia.com/big-bun...utmore_bigeasy

Thanks Ben.

The cheapest broadband only deal on the site is 50Mbps at £30.25.

The bundle that you posted in the link gives phone (Talk Weekends), TV M and the same 50 Mbps for £42.

If he took phone and broadband only, it would cost £37, this looks like the TV is free + the £5 TiVo charge that you mentioned.

If he ends up needing a landline for the Social Services emergency cord anyway, he could have a proper TV service for an extra £5 a month and the two linear TV channels that he watches would be available in HD.

Could he have another type of box to negate the £5 TiVo fee? He's not bothered about recording, he just uses BBC1, BBC News and Radio 4.

If I've got this right, I can let him know the options he has

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Could he have another type of box to negate the £5 TiVo fee? He's not bothered about recording, he just uses BBC1, BBC News and Radio 4.

In post #40 Ben says that you must have a Tivo now for each TV subscription.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

In post #40 Ben says that you must have a Tivo now for each TV subscription.

Well, as an existing customer, I still have the V+ only.

My friend is also an existing customer (broadband only), maybe he'll have to have a TiVo as a returning TV customer though.