Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by richard s

The SS were specially selected lunatics, in my view those who were responsible in genocide should pay the price regardless of age, race, etc.

It will be interesting to see how the current crop of Islamic Nazi's are judged and treated as time moves forward.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It will be interesting to see how the current crop of Islamic Nazi's are judged and treated as time moves forward.

and the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about the state of Israel which treats its neighbors like something they have stood in .

Originally Posted by Pierre

Reign it in a bit.

What about all the women that worked in UK munitions factories during the war effort.

Knowing full well that the bullets and bombs they make are going to kill some innocent people and children.

Do you view them in the same way. They didn't pull the trigger, but they provided the weaponry for the those that did. Is the blood of innocent people on their hands?

That isn't the same thing though. We don't prosecute people for participating in conventional warfare. They are not going after the equivalent people on the Germany side for this nor do they go after the rank and file infantry or the Generals of the conventional armies that spread out across Europe unless they participating in specific war crimes during that time.

The women that worked in UK munitions factories were making weapons designed for conventional warfare against a invading force. They were not working in a factory design to systematically kill an entire race of people who were not invading or posing a threat to them. The former is not a war crime, the later is.

Remember there are two parts to this prosecution. They had to have been involved in the running of the camp and they had to know what the camp was for.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

No, I'm saying punishing a 94 year old bloke for following orders is ludicrous. He hasn't evaded anything. He's never hidden. He's played a minimal part in this supposed 'War Machine' A lot of people were simply soldiers, forced into doing a job or face the consequences, we're quick to forget about that and brand them as fascist pigs instead.

Do your job and then be hunted for the next 70 years or die. What an amazing system. We're quickly taught to believe everyone that lived in Nazi Germany was automatically a racist ignorant fascist murderer.

I hope we pursue and prosecute perpetrators of genocide after the nazis with equal vigour

---------- Post added at 00:42 ---------- Previous post was at 00:41 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

No. But how far down the food chain do you go with culpability? The guy who cleaned the windows? The supplier of bread to the camp? Pens? etc.

How about the Catholic church who's silence during the war years was deafening?

You are joking, no one saved more Jews during wwii than the Catholic Church and the Pope in particular

---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

That isn't the same thing though. We don't prosecute people for participating in conventional warfare. They are not going after the equivalent people on the Germany side for this nor do they go after the rank and file infantry or the Generals of the conventional armies that spread out across Europe unless they participating in specific war crimes during that time.

The women that worked in UK munitions factories were making weapons designed for conventional warfare against a invading force. They were not working in a factory design to systematically kill an entire race of people who were not invading or posing a threat to them. The former is not a war crime, the later is.

Remember there are two parts to this prosecution. They had to have been involved in the running of the camp and they had to know what the camp was for.

Actually we did go after the generals, Alfred jodl in particular sticks in the mind

[adzii_nufc]

There were still many high rankers that managed to get a pardon and ended up having relaxing mega money jobs at some time for the world's biggest companies, those of which I've listed in this thread. Volkswagen is no secret though.

As for pursuing future murders and people that have committed atrocities, we don't though do we. I've said it 3 times now. The British government have killed thousands. Drone operators alone alongside the US have killed over 1000 civilians in Pakistan since the strikes started. It's apparently justified by the 50 or so suspects we killed. There was a family last year that came public about a strike killing his elderly grandmother... We didn't bat an eyelid.

No one is on trial for our crusade against Iraq in our mad pursuit for mythical weapons.

[TheDaddy]

I was thinking more of genocide tbh

http://newint.org/features/special/2...res-in-europe/

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

There were still many high rankers that managed to get a pardon and ended up having relaxing mega money jobs at some time for the world's biggest companies, those of which I've listed in this thread. Volkswagen is no secret though.

As for pursuing future murders and people that have committed atrocities, we don't though do we. I've said it 3 times now. The British government have killed thousands. Drone operators alone alongside the US have killed over 1000 civilians in Pakistan since the strikes started. It's apparently justified by the 50 or so suspects we killed. There was a family last year that came public about a strike killing his elderly grandmother... We didn't bat an eyelid.

No one is on trial for our crusade against Iraq in our mad pursuit for mythical weapons.

The world isn't fair but the fact some people have gotten away with injustice doesn't mean the rest should do. We never were able to go after those responsible for the mass-killings in Eastern Europe because they were behind the iron curtain protected by a powerful country. Likewise some German scientists were pardoned because they were needed to help the building of nuclear weapons.

I don't see any of that as an argument as to why we should go after those that we can though?

[adzii_nufc]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I was thinking more of genocide tbh

http://newint.org/features/special/2...res-in-europe/

Oh. We set them free? Another good deed done by the world police sidekick.

I wonder if this means someone will finally get slapped with a book regarding the fact people were actually left in Auschwitz, gays in fact. Allies liberate it but leave all the homosexuals and just let it go on.

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

There were still many high rankers that managed to get a pardon and ended up having relaxing mega money jobs at some time for the world's biggest companies, those of which I've listed in this thread. Volkswagen is no secret though.

As for pursuing future murders and people that have committed atrocities, we don't though do we. I've said it 3 times now. The British government have killed thousands. Drone operators alone alongside the US have killed over 1000 civilians in Pakistan since the strikes started. It's apparently justified by the 50 or so suspects we killed. There was a family last year that came public about a strike killing his elderly grandmother... We didn't bat an eyelid.

No one is on trial for our crusade against Iraq in our mad pursuit for mythical weapons.

You appear to be conflating civilian casualties in a war with the systematic genocide of a race - they are completely different things is both scope and intent.

Unfortunately (and civilian casualties are covered by the Geneva Convention), in war, and especially in the asymmetrical type of war carried out by ISIS and AQ where they hide amongst civilians, innocent people get killed - it is only in video games where no one except the bad guys get taken out. It's not nice, but then, neither is war.

---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

Oh. We set them free? Another good deed done by the world police sidekick.

I wonder if this means someone will finally get slapped with a book regarding the fact people were actually left in Auschwitz, gays in fact. Allies liberate it but leave all the homosexuals and just let it go on.

Linky, please - that is news to me, as I always thought that before the Soviets reached the camp, the majority of prisoners were taken away by the Nazis to Belsen (which was liberated by the Allies), leaving only a couple of thousand prisoners.

[adzii_nufc]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pers..._the_Holocaust

I'm wrong. I'd read it as homosexuals were given further punishment and took that as they were just kept there. They were included in the death march. After that I don't really have any idea besides the fact German Law continued to be disgusting. Jewish homosexuals were likely killed and German homosexuals were imprisoned until long after the war. What happened to Jewish homosexuals that survived though? Were they allowed to flee or did they then face humane imprisonment for being gays rather than being Jewish?

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pers..._the_Holocaust

I'm wrong. I'd read it as homosexuals were given further punishment and took that as they were just kept there. They were included in the death march. After that I don't really have any idea besides the fact German Law continued to be disgusting. Jewish homosexuals were likely killed and German homosexuals were imprisoned until long after the war. What happened to Jewish homosexuals that survived though? Were they allowed to flee or did they then face humane imprisonment for being gays rather than being Jewish?

Not sure what you're getting at here? The UK also criminalised homosexuality at the time.

[adzii_nufc]

Originally Posted by Damien

Not sure what you're getting at here? The UK also criminalised homosexuality at the time.

That is the point and the question I'm asking. We're such a humanitarian force but punished gays (albeit not in Auschwitz fashion) We'd save a jew.. Unless he was gay basically? That's what I'm getting at or asking. The left behind bit was wrong on my part.

The above is for a case being that people that committed atrocities in Auschwitz against solely gay people can't be trialed for it because we agreed with it. I.E no German man can bring charges against them despite being tortured in Auschwitz.

To expand further on what Hugh said about civilian loss. I think that's all backwards. British and American drone ops have a ratio of 1 suspect killed per 50 civilian deaths and that's acceptable? That's ridiculous, it isn't war it's slaughter. They didn't just collect civilians in collateral damage, they actually aimed for these people and killed them.

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

The above is for a case being that people that committed atrocities in Auschwitz against solely gay people can't be trialed for it because we agreed with it. I.E no German man can bring charges against them despite being tortured in Auschwitz.

We didn't agree with the genocide of homosexuals and Anti-Semitism was rife across Europe as well after all. Are you saying that because homophobia existed in the UK we don't have the right to go after those who committed the genocide? I don't think that logic works at all.

[Kymmy]

What next? Do we start prosecuting the inmates who worked as slave labour for the nazis within these camps or the survivors as they didn't do enough themselves to revolt against the camp guards

This criminal case and result is pathetic as I'm sure that in the last 70+ years this man has punished himself far more than the 4 years they've sentenced him to.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-oskar-6072457

I think that sums it up well. I especially like the part about a lot of these being normal people who could have been us.