SD : Broadcast TV to close by 2030?

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Here are last week's top viewed programmes (source: BARB). This is why it won't happen.

Indeed.

Not only do we viewers clearly still want a broadcast schedule, the broadcasters need a broadcast presence in order to advertise these top-rated shows to us. They cost a fortune to make and even if they were available on demand only, there would need to be some way of alerting us to the date and time when they became available to stream. And if Bit Torrent and Newsgroups have taught us anything, it's that the biggest fans of the biggest shows all want to see them as quickly as possible anyway; that's why the gap between broadcast in the territory where a show originated and broadcast in other places a broadcaster has bought the rights has shrunk until it's now almost non existent in many cases.

They call it "appointment to view" TV, and it's never going away.

[andy_m]

That list has also reminded me why I'm prepared to pay a cable subscription!

[Doug P]

Just do not believe this. Add it to vinyl records, radio, theatre, newspapers and countless other things experts said would be wiped out.... :-)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Doug P

Just do not believe this. Add it to vinyl records, radio, theatre, newspapers and countless other things experts said would be wiped out.... :-)

Maybe not wiped out yet, Doug, vinyl records and newpapers have declined substantially.

I think there will always be a place for radio and theatre!

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed.

Not only do we viewers clearly still want a broadcast schedule, the broadcasters need a broadcast presence in order to advertise these top-rated shows to us. They cost a fortune to make and even if they were available on demand only, there would need to be some way of alerting us to the date and time when they became available to stream. And if Bit Torrent and Newsgroups have taught us anything, it's that the biggest fans of the biggest shows all want to see them as quickly as possible anyway; that's why the gap between broadcast in the territory where a show originated and broadcast in other places a broadcaster has bought the rights has shrunk until it's now almost non existent in many cases.

They call it "appointment to view" TV, and it's never going away.

There are plenty of ways of advertising the shows that are available. Linear TV does not have the monopoly on communication!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Maybe not wiped out yet, Doug, vinyl records and newpapers have declined substantially.

I think there will always be a place for radio and theatre!

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

There are plenty of ways of advertising the shows that are available. Linear TV does not have the monopoly on communication!

With top-rated shows holding the attention of 11 million people for an hour at a time, it's hard to beat and, especially for the BBC, it's free space, unlike billboards, newspaper or internet ads.

[theone2k10]

Originally Posted by Chris

With top-rated shows holding the attention of 11 million people for an hour at a time, it's hard to beat and, especially for the BBC, it's free space, unlike billboards, newspaper or internet ads.

Product placement is a very effective way of advertising too and i'd imagine it wouldn't involve much cost at all to the network.

[007stuart]

The only need for non streaming TV is live TV.

I cannot remember when I last watched commercial TV on a live basis, it's so much quicker. On E4 there is a 7 minute break during each Big Bang Theory and that's taking things too far. Even on BBC, I tend to series link programmes and watch them one after another.

Go TIVO!!

Originally Posted by 007stuart

The only need for non streaming TV is live TV.

I'm going to stick my neck out and guess you don't have kids.

A broadcast TV schedule, especially from a quality broadcaster like the BBC, is a Godsend, I can assure you ... and will remain so until we begin to pop out of the womb with an innate and highly evolved understanding of how to work a remote.

[007stuart]

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm going to stick my neck out and guess you don't have kids.

A broadcast TV schedule, especially from a quality broadcaster like the BBC, is a Godsend, I can assure you ... and will remain so until we begin to pop out of the womb with an innate and highly evolved understanding of how to work a remote.

Well past the kids stage Chris.

However I have sat through endless episodes of Thomas the Tank and Something Special with the grandchildren. The joys of Netflix & IPlayer.

Originally Posted by 007stuart

Well past the kids stage Chris.

However I have sat through endless episodes of Thomas the Tank and Something Special with the grandchildren. The joys of Netflix & IPlayer.

Ah well there you go, you see ... just stick Cbeebies on instead and you get a variety of stuff instead of endless episodes of the same thing.

We have a Pingu DVD which we have relegated to the flat in Millport because we got to the point where we were being driven insane by the endlessly repeating theme tune and shrieks of NOOP NOOP! every five minutes for an hour.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Chris

Ah well there you go, you see ... just stick Cbeebies on instead and you get a variety of stuff instead of endless episodes of the same thing.

We have a Pingu DVD which we have relegated to the flat in Millport because we got to the point where we were being driven insane by the endlessly repeating theme tune and shrieks of NOOP NOOP! every five minutes for an hour.

I have Grandkids (9 and 4 respectively) and when they come round, they go straight to Netflix and select their own programmes.

The problem with sitting them in front of Cbeebies or any TV channel is what happens when something is on they don't like?

I think you underestimate the ability of children to make their own selections rather than be fed stuff that they may not actually choose to watch.

If they are very young, you can keep their attention better by selecting relevant material yourself. Far better than the old days, when I used to have to record their favourite programmes on a VHS tape and then play it back (once I found where a particular programme was!). What a palava!

---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------

Originally Posted by 007stuart

The only need for non streaming TV is live TV.

I cannot remember when I last watched commercial TV on a live basis, it's so much quicker. On E4 there is a 7 minute break during each Big Bang Theory and that's taking things too far. Even on BBC, I tend to series link programmes and watch them one after another.

Go TIVO!!

I think I'm right in saying that even live TV can be shown 'On Demand'; you just won't be able to fast forward beyond the present. The same principle as when you record a programme still being broadcast on your TIVO and play it back almost immediately.

---------- Post added at 12:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------

Originally Posted by theone2k10

Product placement is a very effective way of advertising too and i'd imagine it wouldn't involve much cost at all to the network.

Well, I'm sure ways can be devised to advertise programmes available to see on demand and through streaming.

The programmes can be shown on the relevant menu pages (there is a way of doing this on a rolling basis already on the TIVO) and I dare say publications such as TV and Satellite Week will find new ways of providing us with up to date lists of what is available.

Linear channels is only one way of providing us with content and advertising the programmes available in different ways so that you don't miss what you want to see cannot be beyond the wit of man (or woman)!

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 ----------

Originally Posted by theone2k10

Technically BBC do advertise they advertise the tv licence quite often.

They do on linear TV, but not catch up.

[Stuart]

Personally, I think there is room for both, and I don't think the current ISP networks would cope if broadcast TV stopped.

Something like Eastenders gets between 7 and 11 m viewers daily. With Unicasting (which is what all consumer streaming services, including Netflix) do, each extra viewer takes up extra bandwidth. Eastenders may take up 5Mbps, but it will require that 5mbps per user. Multicast internet is not really an option as it requires the stream to start at a certain time, so viewers lose the on demand option. However, Multicast internet shares an advantage with broadcasting. The programme being broadcast takes a finite amount of bandwidth regardless of how many viewers it has. So, Eastenders will take up 5Mbps regardless of whether it has 1 viewer or 11 million.

Regarding replacing SD with HD, again, that's not going to happen anytime soon. Partly because of bandwidth (again, the ISP networks won't be able to cope) and partly because of cost of remastering.

There is a hell of a lot of SD material out there. If a company offers a so called HD service that is mostly SD material, people are going to complain.

Now, you may argue they can remaster as a lot of (particularly us based) shows were shot on film, not video. True. They've been doing this with Star Trek: TNG, and the blu rays look amazing. However, it's also extremely costly to do. It costs a lot to remaster a film (I don't know the figure, but I believe it to be in the low millions), which may be only 1 or 2 hours long. Star Trek: TNG is over 140 hours long, and some TV shows are longer. It's just not viable to remaster most shows unless they can guarantee good boxset sales (as they pretty much can with TNG). Netflix, for all their good work, is unlikely to make enough money from such a series in extra subscriptions to make it work their while. And if Netflix do stream a remastered series immediately, they are going to pretty much torpedo any box set sales.



Bear in mind the source of this announcement. He has a vested interest in this happening as it will remove his major competition.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Personally, I think there is room for both, and I don't think the current ISP networks would cope if broadcast TV stopped.

Something like Eastenders gets between 7 and 11 m viewers daily. With Unicasting (which is what all consumer streaming services, including Netflix) do, each extra viewer takes up extra bandwidth. Eastenders may take up 5Mbps, but it will require that 5mbps per user. Multicast internet is not really an option as it requires the stream to start at a certain time, so viewers lose the on demand option. However, Multicast internet shares an advantage with broadcasting. The programme being broadcast takes a finite amount of bandwidth regardless of how many viewers it has. So, Eastenders will take up 5Mbps regardless of whether it has 1 viewer or 11 million.

Is that true, that you cannot add something to 'on demand' that is currently being recorded by the provider? If you can do it with a home recorder, why can't you do it for this?

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Personally, I think there is room for both.

I agree; there is little point in making the Freeview channels streaming only; a basic PVR coupled with catchup via the web and it's covered quite cheaply and efficiently for the consumer.

It's shows that end up on pay TV services that would be good to have access to via a no minimum contract web subscription rather than have to subscribe to a pay TV service to get them.

Whether those be from the premium US Cable Networks, such as HBO and Showtime etc. or the top rated shows from US Network TV channels (which tend to end up on a UK pay channel). And to be fair, Now TV is making reasonable in roads into providing that. It would be nice to have more options though.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The problem with sitting them in front of Cbeebies or any TV channel is what happens when something is on they don't like?

I think you underestimate the ability of children to make their own selections rather than be fed stuff that they may not actually choose to watch..

Mine know how to work the iPlayer in our Freesat box - no issues there.

But in the absence of TV on demand, there's absolutely nothing wrong with kids having to make do with what's available, rather than expecting to get their most favourite things, every minute of every day.