Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Anyway the next lot of immigrants will be picking pockets, scamming cash machines and begging in the streets if what is starting to happen to Germany happens here as well.

I know one of the links is from the fail but you get the idea

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-880457.html

http://www.thestockmarketwatch.co/ge...ind-a-job.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Romanians.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/1981/0806/080667.html

many in Germany are outraged,and some municipalities are paying out ridiculous amounts in benefits and housing.... crime is also high.

I wish the UK could just close it's borders to these people,mainly Gypsies.... what do they have to offer that the UK wants??

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Will21st

many in Germany are outraged,and some municipalities are paying out ridiculous amounts in benefits and housing.... crime is also high.

I wish the UK could just close it's borders to these people,mainly Gypsies.... what do they have to offer that the UK wants??

Nothing at all, it is going to be a one way deal. This countries benefits, housing, and healthcare, coupled with our bank details from the hole in the wall machines and our pockets when picked by there well trained teams of pick pockets.

Thanks to the EU for forcing this on us.

[desmo11225]

Hello Every One
I have just joined your forum !!!! I worked in the mines during the war starting January 1940 at 14 years and one month, leaving when the Essential Works Order was with drawn in 1950, I was the first of my family not work under ground [I only worked on the surface]
It seems a terrible shame to me that we only want to get the coal out to burn it, nothing else, Dr Bronowski [Not sure of the spelling] was able to make all kinds of uses from coal, Paint, Chemicals of all kinds, even saccharin, sweetener. Why has'nt more research gone into making these priceless products from it, surely young people could come up with some wonderful ideas now that would save the industry before it's gone all together. Any modern thoughts on that idea. Regards desmo11225

[Taf]

Whilst we can import coal cheaper than we would pay to mine it, it makes good sense to keep our stocks where they are.

Plus in the future there might be a more efficient way to extract the energy from it which would also be environmentally safe and not an eyesore.

[Hom3r]

Sadly its cheaper to import that dig out of the ground here.

[Osem]

If only more people had been altruistic enough to buy British produced stuff, irrespective of cost and quality, all those industries which have failed over the years would still be here. The fact is that a lot of people like to sound off about supporting British industry and jobs until doing so winds up costing them more than buying the imported equivalent.

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by desmo11225

Hello Every One
I have just joined your forum !!!! I worked in the mines during the war starting January 1940 at 14 years and one month, leaving when the Essential Works Order was with drawn in 1950, I was the first of my family not work under ground [I only worked on the surface]
It seems a terrible shame to me that we only want to get the coal out to burn it, nothing else, Dr Bronowski [Not sure of the spelling] was able to make all kinds of uses from coal, Paint, Chemicals of all kinds, even saccharin, sweetener. Why has'nt more research gone into making these priceless products from it, surely young people could come up with some wonderful ideas now that would save the industry before it's gone all together. Any modern thoughts on that idea. Regards desmo11225

The problem is North Sea Oil and Gas came on stream. Its a lot easier to make chemicals from that base than from coal.

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Taf

Whilst we can import coal cheaper than we would pay to mine it, it makes good sense to keep our stocks where they are.

Plus in the future there might be a more efficient way to extract the energy from it which would also be environmentally safe and not an eyesore.

If (rather than when) coal prices rise strongly, then UK mines will become cost effective again and they can be reopened.

The big difference is that a lot of UK coal is deep mining, whereas imports ten to be from opencast mines, which are a lot cheaper to operate.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

If only more people had been altruistic enough to buy British produced stuff, irrespective of cost and quality, all those industries which have failed over the years would still be here. The fact is that a lot of people like to sound off about supporting British industry and jobs until doing so winds up costing them more than buying the imported equivalent.

Fact is if you can't sell to your own market, what hope have you got of selling internationally?

Originally Posted by Osem

If only more people had been altruistic enough to buy British produced stuff, irrespective of cost and quality, all those industries which have failed over the years would still be here. The fact is that a lot of people like to sound off about supporting British industry and jobs until doing so winds up costing them more than buying the imported equivalent.

There are a bunch of foreign cars I would buy ahead of the British brands (are there even any left?)

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by Damien

There are a bunch of foreign cars I would buy ahead of the British brands (are there even any left?)

Define "British".

Jaguar and Land Rover are owned by India's Tata Steel, but design, develop and build all their cars in the UK. They have in fact just finished building a massive new engine plant near Telford.

Toyota has a factory at Burnaston near Derby building the Avensis and Auris.

Vauxhall still build Astras at Ellesmere Port

Nissan has its plant at Sunderland, which makes half a million cars a year

Bentley, despite being VW owned, still builds its cars in Crewe

Honda has a factory in Swindon building the Civic and CR-V

So we still make a fair few cars, including many that actually sell!

[nashville]

No I do not think so, some miners went down the pits when it was dark in the morning and came up when it was dark at night, they never seen the light of day, it is too dangerous a job and many life's were lost, People know better now a days and may not want this work,

[figgyburn]

As in many western societies the workers priced themselves out of their jobs.think british steel.u.s. steel. These were huge entities and employed many people but the workers did not want any reduction in their wages to compete with the cheaper eastern steel so the end was nigh.i have just been in Pittsburgh(steeltown) on holiday and visited a few steel museums and met people once employed by u.s. steel and they said if they had been a bit more flexible and met the bosses halfway there might have still been a u.s. steel business,the once mighty Carnegie homestead mill is now a shopping centre.hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

There are a bunch of foreign cars I would buy ahead of the British brands (are there even any left?)

That's the point I was making. There are those who like to bang on about protecting British jobs but choose not to buy British goods and services for one reason or another. If we had to rely on costly UK produced coal or steel, for example, I reckon most of those same people would soon be be moaning about the increased costs which would inevitably be passed on to them in one way or another.

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by figgyburn

As in many western societies the workers priced themselves out of their jobs.think british steel.u.s. steel. These were huge entities and employed many people but the workers did not want any reduction in their wages to compete with the cheaper eastern steel so the end was nigh.i have just been in Pittsburgh(steeltown) on holiday and visited a few steel museums and met people once employed by u.s. steel and they said if they had been a bit more flexible and met the bosses halfway there might have still been a u.s. steel business,the once mighty Carnegie homestead mill is now a shopping centre.hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The problem is there's no way to beat the Chinese and the Indians in a race to the bottom, thanks to the UK having higher anti pollution standards, not wanting workers to die quite as often and to be able to afford what is, in global terms, a very high standard of living. I'm not saying the unions are blameless, but there's more than the cost of labour.

The answer is to shift the dirty manual graft of raw material generation and simple assembly to these low wage economies and move up the value chain towards design, research/development and production of specialised equipment.

Or, to put it another way, you'll make more money building jet engines than making aluminium to make jet engines.

[tweetiepooh]

It's not easy getting wages down. Where do you start?

Now if you could reduce wages at the top end of the chain (not just the bosses but the end "producers") and then reduce the price of that end product you can start to lower wages further back as they could still afford to new lower priced end product and that reduces the prices of their intermediary and so on.

Problem comes is that wages get reduced but prices don't follow, just more profit then the benefit isn't felt.

OK I'm not stating this very well.

An issue was that wage reduction started back at the raw material level, so those workers were worse off in pocket and the things to buy remained expensive as reductions in price if any hadn't flowed through.

[woodbine]

HA, not sure putting job seekers down re-opened mines would be a good idea these days. They would not hack it. When i was working down there, they sent commandos down there as part of their conditional training in adverse conditions. HA, they could not waite to get above ground. And that was just a tour for them, they did not have to knock off a stent of coal.