VM position 50 meg as "premium"

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by deed02392

Could you perhaps explain or link me to something that will help me ascertain what exactly you mean by the VM network. I thought this was a global thing, whereby the entire infrastructure of the network owned by VM would be operational on DOCSIS3. Or is it portioned up into segments so that customers are running on the DOCSIS3 network until the UBR, when it's a different signal modulation to be more efficient?

Think you don't understand what DOCSIS 3 is. DOCSIS 3 is a method for channel bonding multiple RF streams. At the RF level DOCSIS 3 downstreams on the VM network are EuroDOCSIS, and for now the upstreams are using standard DOCSIS 1 / 1.1.

The entire network does not migrate to DOCSIS 3 nor is it more efficient, you simply have a larger single data pipe, consisting of 4 bonded 8MHz channels, so can offer a single 200Mbit channel to a node instead of the previous 51Mbit per channel. It means higher data rates possible and better statistical contention as each modem takes less of each logical channel.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

It means higher data rates possible and better statistical contention as each modem takes less of each logical channel.

Now you have gone an done it. The sales people will love that, Stuff EVEN more customers on to it, But hey don't worry Captain STM will come to the rescue

[ccarmock]

Is the relevence of DOCSIS of any form purely on the final leg of the network anyway - ie between the UBR & the subscribers modem?

There is also the core of the network which I assume with be ethernet based and then peering with other providers.

If VM don't invest in those areas as well then all we will see is that the technology between the UBR and the subscriber will improve but the rest of the network will not without further investment.

Now I knwo the UBR isn't actually in the green box - so I assume each green box aggregates back to a single UBR port somewhere? Or does each piece of Coax to a home connect to a seperate UBR port?

Are the UBRs local to the area they serve or all held in a few central locations?

Does the roll out of DOCSIS 3 require new equipment in the local green boxes too or just at the UBR?


Does DOCISIS 3 employ any more advanced security to try to eradicate those stealing bandwidth?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Now you have gone an done it. The sales people will love that, Stuff EVEN more customers on to it, But hey don't worry Captain STM will come to the rescue

Remember that the 20Mbit modems will also be moving to the same platform, just registered onto a single downstream rather than all 4 - DOCSIS 3 is backwards compatible.

I doubt they'll stuff too much on it, can you imagine what the press would do to them if people saw congestion on their (at a guess) nearly £50 a month 50Mbit?

[deed02392]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Think you don't understand what DOCSIS 3 is. DOCSIS 3 is a method for channel bonding multiple RF streams. At the RF level DOCSIS 3 downstreams on the VM network are EuroDOCSIS, and for now the upstreams are using standard DOCSIS 1 / 1.1.

The entire network does not migrate to DOCSIS 3 nor is it more efficient, you simply have a larger single data pipe, consisting of 4 bonded 8MHz channels, so can offer a single 200Mbit channel to a node instead of the previous 51Mbit per channel. It means higher data rates possible and better statistical contention as each modem takes less of each logical channel.

Yeah, I understand what DOCSIS3 is, I read all about it, but I saw you saying in another post that VM would never use it as the backbone, that's why I am confused. Forget I said anything :P

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by ccarmock

Is the relevence of DOCSIS of any form purely on the final leg of the network anyway - ie between the UBR & the subscribers modem?

Yep between CMTS / uBR and modem.

There is also the core of the network which I assume with be ethernet based and then peering with other providers.

If VM don't invest in those areas as well then all we will see is that the technology between the UBR and the subscriber will improve but the rest of the network will not without further investment.

Yes but this is the much cheaper bit. The cost of the last mile is several orders of magnitude higher.

Now I knwo the UBR isn't actually in the green box - so I assume each green box aggregates back to a single UBR port somewhere? Or does each piece of Coax to a home connect to a seperate UBR port?

Each piece of coax is aggregated at the nearest green box, from there it goes to x other green boxes where it's amplified and aggregated together and eventually it goes into a nodal cabinet where it's combined with other coax going into that cabinet. Each node is between 250 and 2500 homes passed by the network so potentially that is how many customers are sharing a uBR port.

Just to make it more complicated multiple nodes can share a single port, and to make it worse still you can supply more than one downstream to a single node.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_fibre-coaxial

Are the UBRs local to the area they serve or all held in a few central locations?

Depends, they vary from local to 'regional'. For example Basingstoke is served by equipment in Reading and the Basingstoke hub just has optical repeaters which relay signals to and from Reading, while Horndean, a pretty small village in Hampshire, has its' own uBRs in its' own hubsite.

Does the roll out of DOCSIS 3 require new equipment in the local green boxes too or just at the UBR?

Depends on the area. Some areas will not have the required 'room' on the network for the extra 32MHz that DOCSIS 3 deployment requires. These areas will either have to wait for analogue to be switched off, or need network upgrade which will require work in the green boxes. Generally DOCSIS 3 will only need work at the headends / hubsites and the new equipment will be in the same racks as the legacy uBRs running alongside them.

Does DOCISIS 3 employ any more advanced security to try to eradicate those stealing bandwidth?

Yes, it has all the BPI+ features that DOCSIS 1.1 has along with some additional features. Attempting to steal bandwidth from a DOCSIS 3 network is several orders of magnitude harder than the legacy networks.

*phew*

Ah...

Originally Posted by deed02392

Yeah, I understand what DOCSIS3 is, I read all about it, but I saw you saying in another post that VM would never use it as the backbone, that's why I am confused. Forget I said anything :P

Nah the backbone will be SDH with n x 10Gbit Ethernet riding on it

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

I doubt they'll stuff too much on it, can you imagine what the press would do to them if people saw congestion on their (at a guess) nearly £50 a month 50Mbit?

Well the press don't give a fig about the 20 meg on £34.00 a month so no change there then.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Well the press don't give a fig about the 20 meg on £34.00 a month so no change there then.

The fastest broadband in the UK performing like gack might get their attention though

VM will seriously be watching the capacity on the EuroDOCSIS 3 downstreams there like hawks, I've little doubt of that.

[Chrysalis]

actually I think VM are right in the current broadband market. Samknows recently did a diagnosis of the major isps, and BT broadband performed horribly on non port 80 traffic even worse than the famous plusnet.

Ipstream adsl the way the wholesale prices work and considering the variable quality depending on line length I now see it as a budget model, its attractive to light users only, and heavier users generally get heavily restricted or have to pay a very heavy premium eg. £80 month for 8meg unlimited on zen subject to line quality. BT broadband and 90% of the adsl market are all concentrating on customers who pay under £10-15, sky willingly selling broadband at a loss just to retain tv customers so the broadband market on the adsl side has become very budget based. To keep costs down most are employing traffic shaping much worse than STM with a few exceptions, sky is the only major adsl isp that currently has no traffic shaping however they are now going to be enforcing their monthly caps and they still have line length restrictions.

I said a while back VM need to model their broadband as a premium product because technically its far superior to xDSL, the only mistake I think they doing at the moment is STM, if they can remove that when docsis3 is rolled out then they have a winner.

[Ignitionnet]

I'm interested in why you discuss BT when a better comparison to VM is the LLU operators that cover their areas 100% such as Be, and I'm also interested in why you mentioned Sky enforcing their monthly caps, I'm not aware of them doing such a thing and even if they did £10 for unlimited service is hardly a bank breaker.

50Mbit will have STM I'm afraid, no removal, no negotiation, the rollout of it is complete with STM.

[Fatec]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

50Mbit will have STM I'm afraid, no removal, no negotiation, the rollout of it is complete with STM.

Yep, price has changed to reflect this though, of course, now the 50Mbit is no longer a premium product

[hokkers999]

Originally Posted by TraxData2

Yep, price has changed to reflect this though, of course, now the 50Mbit is no longer a premium product

I expect they have put it UP then

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by TraxData2

Yep, price has changed to reflect this though, of course, now the 50Mbit is no longer a premium product

You must have some sources to know pricing, VM themselves don't have a confirmed pricing for it last I heard, though I'm not sure what the peeps from Lenny Henry country are paying.

[Raistlin]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

[...]I'm not sure what the peeps from Lenny Henry country are paying.

What have the West Midlands got to do with it? I would have thought it would be the same price everywhere?

[Zhadnost]

I thought the trials were somewhere in Kent.

Lenny Henry is from Dudley.