Teenager faces prosecution for calling Scientology 'cult'

[punky]

I have not yet commented on whether Scientology is a cult or not. In fact I haven't commented on the CoS at all. What I did do was explain to foreverwar why I think Chakribarti's words were poorly chosen from a legal and linguistical point of view.

However you seem invoke parity with Islam, which is inappropriate when you consider the documented actions of the Scientology "organisation".

Again, I was talking about Chakribarti, not scientology, as above.

By the way, it's upto the CPS and the ultimately the courts alone to decide. Whether a crime has been committed in this instance. However, if you want me to make a prediction about the case, I predict it will be dropped because the CoS isn't an approved religion in the UK, so I can't see how religious intolerance laws can apply. However libel laws still might. And no, I still haven't commented on the CoS.

I'm not sure what your implying here? Is it illegal to protest outside a private building?

I'm not sure how you get that from my post. I'll elaborate. People have the right to complain to the police when they feel a crime has been committed. Even scientologists (no, that's not a comment on CoS either). So it is not exactly a surprise a complaint is made to the police when an anti-Scientology protest is held outside their headquarters, particularly when you consider their aggressive legal policies (yes, that is a comment on CoS).

[downquark1]

I'm not sure how you get that from my post. I'll elaborate. People have the right to complain to the police when they feel a crime has been committed. Even scientologists (no, that's not a comment on CoS either). So it is not exactly a surprise a complaint is made to the police when an anti-Scientology protest is held outside their headquarters, particularly when you consider their aggressive legal policies (yes, that is a comment on CoS).

Indeed I fully agree. It is not that the police were called that anyone disagrees with, it is that they acted by confiscating the sign. Surely the police can only act when a crime is committed, granted ambiguity was expressed and it was deferred, but I think that's the point. The police are either interpreted it too harsh, the law is too harsh, or it is too ambiguous.

As for Islam, I would disagree with using the word cult but would defend the right to use it. I won't speculate on whether Chakribarti would agree.

[punky]

Originally Posted by downquark1

Indeed I fully agree. It is not that the police were called that anyone disagrees with, it is that they acted by confiscating the sign. Surely the police can only act when a crime is committed, granted ambiguity was expressed and it was deferred, but I think that's the point. The police are either interpreted it too harsh, the law is too harsh, or it is too ambiguous.

I think you're being too harsh on the police. The police can only act when they suspect that a crime has been committed and they more-or-less have to make a snap decision. If they were hypothetically in position to definitively say either way then it would negate the need for the CPS and courts. As another protester said, on another day, in another place, nothing happened. About the confiscation of the sign, doesn't that make sense? If the police do suspect there is some disorder or incitement happening, then aren't they obliged to stop it? How does it make sense to allow them to continue?

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by punky

I think you're being too harsh on the police. The police can only act when they suspect that a crime has been committed and they more-or-less have to make a snap decision. If they were hypothetically in position to definitively say either way then it would negate the need for the CPS and courts. As another protester said, on another day, in another place, nothing happened. About the confiscation of the sign, doesn't that make sense? If the police do suspect there is some disorder or incitement happening, then aren't they obliged to stop it? How does it make sense to allow them to continue?

I will of course offer leeway when a true ambiguity arises, but there is no report of disorder or incitement. In fact these protesters have been making sure they respect the local laws, I've seen their fliers. When challenged he quoted a previous court ruling, evidently these protesters were closer to the law than the police.

Otherwise you end up preventing precrime, which ironically is the subject of a Tom Cruise movie.

[punky]

Originally Posted by downquark1

but there is no report of disorder or incitement.

You aren't in a position to say that. How would you know if anyone made a complaint to police? Besides, its irrelevent. The police don't need to wait for a report if they suspect a crime is in progress. That would be crazy otherwise.

[downquark1]

If a witness was here i would yield. But that protest group is a loose affiliated group of internet nerds. The closest they get to violence is google bombing.
what were they going to do? Throw their inhalers?

Originally Posted by punky

You aren't in a position to say that. How would you know if anyone made a complaint to police? Besides, its irrelevent. The police don't need to wait for a report if they suspect a crime is in progress. That would be crazy otherwise.

But don't they have to be fairly certain it is a crime first otherwise they are going to get sued a lot for wrongful arrest.

[greencreeper]

Originally Posted by Russ B

OK now you've gone in to a little more detail, your post is slightly less offensive....

I'm not sure if causing an offense is a bad thing all the time - suppose it depends on the situation.

Originally Posted by Russ B

Firstly I have no argument against people saying there are rituals in Catholicism (too many IMO), and your comments on communion - our God is NOT long-dead. I could go in to detail about the meaning behind Communion but that would be long-winded, off topic and invite more pointless posts about 'genocidal tyrants'.

It's alright - I understand the meaning And it could get really heavy going if we discuss whether He is dead or not

Originally Posted by Russ B

Catholicism (which actually promotes abstinance over unsafe sex by the way) has had priests who abuse children, that is not in question. But you said Catholicism 'practices' it. My mother (and most of her family) is a Catholic and in private you're entitled to any opinion you're comfortable with but to implicate my family in that, indirectly or directly, I won't let you get off that easily.

Abstinance I think is a tad unrealistic, since it is counter to the natural desire to procreate. My first post was badly written, and I didn't take into account how sensitive people are on the subject of religion. Shame it can't be banned on the forum Anyway, apologies if my clumsy post caused any offence to anyone.

You can stop the red reps now <--- closest to a white flag I could find

Oh yeah nothing gets some people foaming at the mouth like a good ol religious thread . Anyhoo so scientology isn't a cult eh coulda fooled me if it looks like one, sounds like one and acts like one i tend to call it one but there we are. Do we have any scientologists on this forum out of curiosity because i am still completely baffled by all this alien souls and stuff you guys believe in and would like some explanation on that one.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Oh yeah nothing gets some people foaming at the mouth like a good ol religious thread . Anyhoo so scientology isn't a cult eh coulda fooled me if it looks like one, sounds like one and acts like one i tend to call it one but there we are. Do we have any scientologists on this forum out of curiosity because i am still completely baffled by all this alien souls and stuff you guys believe in and would like some explanation on that one.

One day soon Rizzy a big flying-saucer will take all the followers, and the leader, off to the planet Blisstonia.

HAHA i liked that episode of the simpsons as well .

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

HAHA i liked that episode of the simpsons as well .

As far as I can make out its as likely to happen as anything Mr Cruises lot have on offer.

Well i think they are all whacked out to be perfectly honest but then if i was pushed about religion in general it wouldn't be too good either so live and let live i just never got the part about alien souls and suchlike and i really cba to wade through the propaganda on their website to find out lol.

My point about all this is that I didn't realise that the word cult was offensive and abusive.I merely thought it was a description.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

My point about all this is that I didn't realise that the word cult was offensive and abusive.I merely thought it was a description.

Does that mean that The Southern Death Cult were offensive?

(aka Death Cult, aka The Cult).

I know Ian Astbury is/was annoying, but offensive?