Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by sssshhhh

I have voted no. They are there to be punished for commiting a crime. They already have access to pool tables, books etc. This should be enough.

I can see the point that it would be good for rehabilitation/educational purposes, and I agree that rehabilitation has to sit alongside punishment in a prison environment. But imo anything relevant on the net to any subject/course a prisoner is studying should be taken off by staff and provided in another format they can access that doesn't involve the prisoner sitting at the pc and logging on to the www themselves.

In terms of a prisoner using the net to clear their name, the system already allows for this in terms of appeals processes and the like. THere are obviously occasions where this is not possible. no money for barristers etc. So I think there should be a monitered system in place that is run by a party away from the prison staff at that particular institution. And if agreed that the prisoner has enough grounds to warrant time given online to source information then it should be monitered by the right impartial people, but who still have the intrests of the law and the public at the forefront.

Would be a lot more cost effective to use electronic means to restrict their access than paying all those people to do it, don't you think?

[sssshhhh]

Would be a lot more cost effective to use electronic means to restrict their access than paying all those people to do it, don't you think?

I don't think so. And I don't really know a lot about prisons, etc so you could call this speculation. If a prisoner has a genuine case to go online to source information that could lead to his release, I wonder how many prisoners would be deemed to have genuine grounds for it. If they've been convicted then I would imagine in most cases, not all, but most the evidence against them has been strong anyway. And if there is doubt then the next step is usually via appeal through the courts. Our judicial system is what our society accepts as the fairest way to decide whats right and wrong.

I think if a prisoner beleives a miscarriage of justice has been done, and the reasoning behind it can be clearly agreed upon then it's something that should be monitered via the authorities if net access was introduced. Because at the end of the day they have been through the system and found guilty.

Yes it may be cheaper to use an electronic means to restrict access if all prisoners were to be given it, but my stance is they should only have access to it for the above reasons, in which case it would probably be cheaper to have one case worker assigned to a prison or number of prisons, than having an entire security system set up.

[Womble]

Originally Posted by cimt

No, they already get enough. What is the point in putting people in prison if you're just going to treat them like mad? Idiotic government....

Ditto, they are supposed to be being punished ffs

No Computers for Crims.

Whatever happened to sewing up mail sacks?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Escapee, should prisons be a place to lock people up for a set period of time and then release them, or should they be a place to lock people up for a set period of time and educate them so that they don't need to rely on crime to get by when released?

Prison shouldn't offer them a better life than what they have outside, if that happens when released they are happy to commit crime and live off the proceeds and be glad to go back inside.

A percentage of criminals can be taught the error of their ways and turn over a new leaf, I would never suggest that these criminals should not be encouraged to do so. However we have another type of criminal who will never change their ways, because prison is no deterrent to them.

The majority of us on this forum would not commit the crime because we fear the outcome, loss of priveledges and danger etc. The people who have nothing to loose have no deterrent and making the establishment that is supposed to dish out punishment nice and cosy compared to their life, outside can only encourage them to fight their way back in.

I'm off to Tesco now to collect some computer for prison vouchers!

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

prison is supposed to be punnishment, so no ,computers and bb are luxuries that should be beyond the reach of prisoners, what the hells next 42 inch plasma telly ,pizza and beer. far as i'm concerned they have the right to suffer

I second this

If i'm working 2 jobs just to survive and get by, then why should someone who has committed a crime (no one made them do it) have the luxuries i can't afford. Its getting rediculous - they are there for punishment.

I can understand as mentioned that it may be needed in event of rehabilitation, and therefore my one and only suggestion would be that it would be very limited and watched with a member of staff sitting on their shoulder (like my boss does to me ). If budgets don't allow this, then they go without - simple as that.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Escapee

Prison shouldn't offer them a better life than what they have outside, if that happens when released they are happy to commit crime and live off the proceeds and be glad to go back inside.

A percentage of criminals can be taught the error of their ways and turn over a new leaf, I would never suggest that these criminals should not be encouraged to do so. However we have another type of criminal who will never change their ways, because prison is no deterrent to them.

The majority of us on this forum would not commit the crime because we fear the outcome, loss of priveledges and danger etc. The people who have nothing to loose have no deterrent and making the establishment that is supposed to dish out punishment nice and cosy compared to their life, outside can only encourage them to fight their way back in.

I'm off to Tesco now to collect some computer for prison vouchers!

So while you're sensibly against the ludicrous idea put forward by a prisoner (don't want people thinking it was a serious suggestion or one made by the goverment, although it appears that some people have made the mistake of believing that) to have laptops etc in their cells for entertainment aswell as educational reasons, along with video phones to say goodnight to their kids...
You're also sensibly supportive of the idea of internet access for educational/rehabilitation purposes in a restricted manner and a pirvilage rather than a right, which can be removed upon bad behaviour inside.
That about cover it?

Sounds sensible to me.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

So while you're sensibly against the ludicrous idea put forward by a prisoner (don't want people thinking it was a serious suggestion or one made by the goverment, although it appears that some people have made the mistake of believing that) to have laptops etc in their cells for entertainment aswell as educational reasons, along with video phones to say goodnight to their kids...
You're also sensibly supportive of the idea of internet access for educational/rehabilitation purposes in a restricted manner and a pirvilage rather than a right, which can be removed upon bad behaviour inside.
That about cover it?

Sounds sensible to me.

I agree that any mothods used to turn around a criminal early on before they become a career criminal is a good idea. On the other hand I feel the treatment is unfair to all the good boys and girls who have not committed a crime, but are not able to afford broadband access.

Prison is a place where someone goes as a form of punishment for their crimes, I also see little point in the benefit of email for them to apply for jobs etc.

joe.bloggs@wormwood.scrubs.co.uk

I guess that would look wonderful on a CV.

[Xaccers]

Well they can get free broadband access from their local library.
It's not like they have to commit crimes to do it.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Well they can get free broadband access from their local library.
It's not like they have to commit crimes to do it.

Exactly, so when they are deemed safe enough to be moved to an open prison they can visit their local library.

[Xaccers]

Sorry, your point was that it was unfair to people who've not comitted a crime but can't afford broadband.
How is it unfair when those people can also get free high speed internet access?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Sorry, your point was that it was unfair to people who've not comitted a crime but can't afford broadband.
How is it unfair when those people can also get free high speed internet access?

I still have a point, if I didn't have broadband at home how would I be able to obtain free broadband access?

Yes, this week I would because I am off work, but any other week the library would be closed by the time I finish work. Soldiers in Afghanistan have an allocated time and have to queue for ages to get to use a pc to send emails home. (That was certainly the case 6 months ago)

Prisoners are in there to be stripped of all the nice things in life, they are there to be provided with the basic requirements as a form of punishment. As I said before education for criminals is an exception for using a pc, but I fail to see why that would need a connection to the outside world.

Perhaps a prison Intranet would be a safer compromise? There could be a method where prisoners request online books to download for eduactional reasons, that way there would be a tighter control.

[Xaccers]

Prisoners don't have free range access to the internet.
They can't go online whenever they like, they can't access any sites they like.
You can pootle along to the library during you lunch break if you work nearby, or head along there in at the weekend.
The fact remains, you have access to the internet.
If you were at work, you wouldn't be able to use your home internet access either.
Prison's purpose is to act as a deterrant, punishment and rehabilitate.
The lack of an effective policeforce and courts counters the deterrant factor much more than any percieved "luxuries" do.
If people actually believed they'd always get caught and sent to prison, even with TV's in their cells, there would actually be a reduction in crime.
Problem is people know that a) they aren't likely to get caught and b) aren't likely to be sent to prison for the majority of crimes.
Prison punishes people. I've known people who went to prison and young offenders institutes, and none of them want to go back. Their belief that they weren't likely to get caught or be sent back negated the aversion to prison and so they continued to comit crime, getting away with it or just getting slapped wrists (re-inforcing their belief that they'd not go back to prison).
Rehabilitation is seriously lacking in UK prisons, it costs lots of money, not everyone is responsive to it, and not many people want to go into providing it. Add to that the low average length of sentence, it makes it even harder to do.