BBC's concern at Gaza man's fate

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Asghar

Just shows how little you know about Gaza.

Or how little you know about the Hitler's youth organisation.

Originally Posted by Asghar

Just shows how little you know about Gaza.

So what?

Tell me you think an organisation that uses force of arms to expel its rivals and holds the abolition of a neighbouring sovreign state as a serious political goal is firing on all cylinders. Go on, I could do with a laugh.

Hamas is aware that it needs credibility and a firm control over its territory. The hostage situation was challenge to their authority so long as it continued and a gilt-edged PR opportunity if they could resolve it.

I'm glad Alan Johnson has been freed but I don't doubt this has happened because it served Hamas' needs.

They may well be devastatingly popular in Gaza right now. But in 1938, Germany was very happy to follow Adolf Hitler, and look where it got them.

[BBKing]

Well David Miliband mentioned how big a part they had played in his release when he was being interviewed on the BBC this morning.

Interesting - neither Virgin Radio news nor Radio 4 mentioned it. BBC News website does. It's clearly a propaganda coup for Hamas, of course, which is why the soft-pedalling of their influence is to be expected. Miliband's openness is to be welcomed - I'm still hedging my bets over whether we're actually going to see a sane foreign policy now, but it's a good start.

Yeah, they're right up there with Adolf's youth club network in the social responsibility stakes.

I think you may be mistaking them for someone else. Hamas are a) a political party b) enjoying popular support c) have just beaten Fatah d) are clearly keen on imposing some form of order in Gaza*, which is more than Israel ever have or Fatah are capable of currently (the reason Hamas won is that Fatah were/are corrupt and incompetent, and the current policy of ignoring the free and fair election result and hailing the losers Fatah as Tel Aviv and Washington's best mates, supplying them with guns and pushing them over the border to fight is really not going to make them any more liked. It may have escaped people's notice that the average Gazan isn't a big fan of Israel or the USA, possibly as a result of picking bits of shrapnel with 'Made in USA' out of their relatives for years.

Obtaining Alan Johnston's release is a calculated act to demonstrate that Hamas are in charge now - he's on the radio now saying that when Hamas took over the whole attitude changed and the jihadis started getting very worried - this should be hammered home to everyone who fancies having an opinion on this - if you get rid of Hamas from Gaza, the crazies who kidnapped Johnston will be *happier* - beware of creating power vacuums just at the moment.

There's the small matter of being an elected political party, too (with a heavily armed wing, but there aren't many Middle Eastern political parties without armed wings, least of all Fatah or indeed most of the Iraqi government coalition).

* My favourite story from http://conflictblotter.com/2007/06/1...ts-and-pieces/ has to be this one

...they have their own style of traffic policing as well. They do it with a sort of Islamic flare. We double parked so my fixer could get cigarettes today and a Hamas traffic cop in a yellow vest came up to the window. He wanted us to move our car, but said simply: “Bow to God.� Somehow it was all that needed to be said, because our driver instantly understood and pulled ahead into a parking spot.

Suddenly London's parking goons seem almost benign. What's interesting is that they're disciplined enough to get the traffic moving right away. These guys aren't gun-wielding madman or thugs any more than Hizbollah are, they're a great deal more sophisticated and thus deserve respect, although probably not actual approval. Forget that and you'll come to bad conclusions.

More on the release here:
http://conflictblotter.com/2007/07/0...stons-release/

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Or how little you know about the Hitler's youth organisation.

Apparently it's a smart career move.

[Xaccers]

Funny, the "palestinians" and Israeli arabs I met were more interested in living in peace than worrying about Israel existing or not.

Talking of Hamas, I seem to recal many in the Gaza strip were rather upset at Hamas' actions, due to the obvious repercussions and extended harship, I mean, you may think it's great that a totalitarian group has seized power and evicted/beaten/murdered elected members of Fatah, but from what I've heard people on the ground aren't too happy about it.
Problem is with a group like Hamas running things, much like with Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy, oh and lets not forget your pal Saddam when he was running Iraq, speaking out in protest normally results in censorship with extreme prejudice.

Originally Posted by BBKing

I think you may be mistaking them for someone else. Hamas are a) a political party b) enjoying popular support c) have just beaten Fatah d) are clearly keen on imposing some form of order in Gaza*, which is more than Israel ever have or Fatah are capable of currently <snip>

Some neat parallels there, thanks. Exactly as I said, more than a few worrying parallels with our old nemesis Adolf and his rise to power in 1933. Thankfully Hamas is coralled in the Gaza strip rather than being in charge of a major European power, or else the Middle East really would be in a pickle.

Obtaining Alan Johnston's release is a calculated act to demonstrate that Hamas are in charge now - he's on the radio now saying that when Hamas took over the whole attitude changed and the jihadis started getting very worried - this should be hammered home to everyone who fancies having an opinion on this - if you get rid of Hamas from Gaza, the crazies who kidnapped Johnston will be *happier* - beware of creating power vacuums just at the moment.

I agree. However I'm still glad they're penned into Gaza rather than running the whole show right now (i.e. the West Bank, where they could cause some real trouble). And I don't think the fact that they are for the time being acting as a restraint on those more bloodthirsty even than they should prevent us from bearing in mind that they are a dangerous organisation whose avowed aim is the destruction of a sovreign neighbour.

Are they useful? In a way, yes.
Does Alan Johnson, or Israel, or anyone else, owe them any favours? Absolutely not.

There's the small matter of being an elected political party, too (with a heavily armed wing, but there aren't many Middle Eastern political parties without armed wings, least of all Fatah or indeed most of the Iraqi government coalition).

So were the Nazis. Again, different scale, but it goes to show that in the grand scheme of things, the fact that you're democratically elected does not give you absolute right to do whatever you want.