The Suffolk 'Ripper'

[Vlad_Dracul]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Total speculation but it looks like he's struck again...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/6167411.stm

Indeed, it seems that there is a serial killer on the loose now. I have listened to this being discussed for a few hours on the radio today and the same old arguements were trotted out about legalisation etc. A couple of women came on air and talked about their experiences of selling sex. Some suggested that the police were not doing enough to protect them,another said that she wasnt on drugs but she just preferred this line of work becuase she liked the money and she worked fewer hours. She said that there was no way she would go and work for 5 or 10 pounds an hour and do a forty hour week.

So then, lets cut through the rubbish that is talked.

First of all it is tragic that a few young women have lost their lives in this pitifull manner.

But, this is not an arguement nor does it demonstrate a need for legalisation.

As for the police not protecting "girls" what rubbish. Prostitutes are entitled to the same levels of protection as everyone else in the UK i.e next to nothing. The thin blue line is very thin and no one should receive preferential treatment, least of all those who choose to break the law and put themselves in potentially hazardous situations by choice.

The fact is that many pros' choose the lifestyle becuase they are non conformists and they enjoy the easy money and flexible hours.

There is no need in the this country for any girl to sell their bodies. It is fortunate that we live in a country that provides a basic safety net.

We live in a society which has rules, certain moral codes and laws. There will always be those who choose to operate on the fringes of or outside of mainstream society. It could be prostitutes,criminals,travellers,new age type,I'm sure you can all name them. If they choose not to play the game, to be part of mainstream society and to abide by the common law and conventions of our society then that is their choice and they should expect to deal with any consequences.

There is no need to legalise prostitution simply because non conformists and pressure groups call for it. I would suggest that these women adopt the mainstream rules, laws and moral codes of mainstream society and get themselves a proper job, instead of cocking a snoot at ordinary hard working people who play the game AND do those jobs for 5 or 10 pounds an hour that these lazy pros will not do.

It is fact that many girls who work the streets are there becuase they are heroin hookers. What is beyond me is the crass stupidity of the men who are having sex with them! I can only assume that they are niave enuogh to think that the girls are only earning a bit of extra pin money or that they enjoy hte sex so much that they cant get enough of it!

Perhaps these stupid men should check out the national statistics on such nasty diseases as herpes, hiv and other std's before they risk bringing this filth home to their wives.

So then, dont legalise, we already have tolerance in so called "health clubs". Purge the streets of heroin hookers and name and shame their clients on street advertising hoardings. But do not bow to self interest pressure groups who want to change the common law and general moral codes of society becuase the current ones dont suit them.

The above diatribe also applies to filthy male rent boys whos street activites in major cities seem to be on the increase.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by dooper786

But, this is not an arguement nor does it demonstrate a need for legalisation.

Agreed. It shows there appears to be a serial killer on the loose who will probably go for other women if prostitutes aren't easily available.

Originally Posted by dooper786

There is no need in the this country for any girl to sell their bodies. It is fortunate that we live in a country that provides a basic safety net.
*snip*
It is fact that many girls who work the streets are there becuase they are heroin hookers. What is beyond me is the crass stupidity of the men who are having sex with them!

I suppose it's a good thing that prostitution hasn't been about for a couple of thousand years then eh?
The majority of working girls are either addicted to heroin or crack and the benefits system doesn't stretch to cover the costs of those habits so they are 'forced' into other ways of making quick cash. Most of the time this is either prostitution or petty theft.
Of course there are some treatment programs but they are pretty haphazard.

I'm also pretty sure most of the men who use prostitutes aren't too bothered about what they might catch, they have their mind on one thing.

[hatedbythemail]

hmmm. there was a prostitute on the rado today weho claimed she was raped, reported it to the police who, she said, laughed and said "it goes with the job love."

if that story is true then prostitutes do not receive the same level of protection, the same duty of care, as others.

she also argued against legalisation saying that there would still be girls outside that system. i'm not sure of her argument there though as i'm sure girls and customers alike would prefer more secure environments - secure as in sexual health, protection from violence etc. but, of course, drug abuse is another factor and one which needs to be taken into account in the vicious cycle we currently have.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Originally Posted by Derek S

Agreed. It shows there appears to be a serial killer on the loose who will probably go for other women if prostitutes aren't easily available.



I suppose it's a good thing that prostitution hasn't been about for a couple of thousand years then eh?
The majority of working girls are either addicted to heroin or crack and the benefits system doesn't stretch to cover the costs of those habits so they are 'forced' into other ways of making quick cash. Most of the time this is either prostitution or petty theft.
Of course there are some treatment programs but they are pretty haphazard.

I'm also pretty sure most of the men who use prostitutes aren't too bothered about what they might catch, they have their mind on one thing.

Indeed but murder and assault have been around since cave men had rocks to pound eachothers skulls in with so we cannot use that as a valid arguement for legalising murder can we?

As for drug treatment programs, well actual rehab programs are available both in the public and private sector. Public sector treatment programs are a little less accessible though but it is quite possible to visit a licenced and certified GP who has the authority to assess and if necessary prescribe diamorphine in the form of Methadone to act as a substitute for street Heroin. The trouble is of course that the mind of the Heroin addict is so twisted, out of control and devious that even those on "scripts" know how to abuse the system. Often they will get a script to tide them over a tough time or when there is a Heroin drought,as happens from time to time. If they have a script they will often either stockpile it as insurance,use it AND have street Heroin becuase you can never have enough heroin, or sell it on to other desperate addicts. Sometimes doctors prescribe a set dose per day and that is all that is handed out at the clinic. Addicts will fight and argue that it isnt enough for them and try to tranfer guilt and blame by saying they arent getting enough to stop them taking Heroin or to stop them being ill or to stop them committing crimes and therefore, by implication, the GP or clinic is guilty becuase they simply arent giving out enough Methadone.

The bottom line is that many Heroin addicts are just schemers, liars and are past masters at manipulation. They manipulate the system and to a greater extent,they manipulate and poison their families and friends.

Most H addicts do not have the necessary will and strength to get off and so its a waste of time feeding them Methadone and spending money on rehab. They really do have to find their own level. Thats why NHS rehab is not as accessible. Becuase the organisations that run it and work in it,know the mind of the smack head.

There will always be casualties in life.

[hatedbythemail]

drug rehab programmes are actually pretty elusive to many doop. thats why so many drug users are in nick. a dear do all round.

[peanut]

Many pro's go to the police because they've been abused one way or another to be 'ignored' by the police. They pull them in and charge them only so they have to move into more darker secluded areas to avoid being caught by the police, so therefore putting themselves in much more higher risk.

I think it's difficult to say why they do it, it's not for us to judge. Until you are / been in that kind of position yourself then speculation is just that.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

drug rehab programmes are actually pretty elusive to many doop. thats why so many drug users are in nick. a dear do all round.

Well I admit that state rehab takes a bit of time to get but if you have a real will, then you will pursue that path. The reason why it isnt so readily available is that if it were,the place would be full of smack heads who are just there for some rest and recouperation rather than becuase of a genuine will to go the distance and hopefully get clean. Fact is that a H addict can be clinically clean of H within a week or two but they then have a psychlogical battle not dissimilar to that of the reformed smoker.

I am aware of a couple of two separate cases whereby H addicts blagged their parents into thinking they wanted finally to sort themselves out. Parents wept tears of joy,parents quite wealthy,in both cases paid for private clinics run by a charitable organisation, both addicts ripped parents off for huge wadge of cash,one didnt even go near the place, the other stayed a couple of days and did a runner.

My answer would be to set up a containment and treatment facility in the remotest place in the country and leave them there until they either got their heads straight or died.

[hatedbythemail]

you seem to know a lot about heroin addicts doop. would you like to share your experience with my addicted mate who couldn't get into rehab until he was nicked? even then he didn't receive decent treatment for the best part of two years. it's not an easy addiction to break - but, hey, they jusy want a bit of recuperation before they go out thieving to feed their habit, losing relationships etc

[Jules]

What ever they did for a living I am sure they have left behind people that loved and/or cared for them. I just hope the person that has done this is caught very soon

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by dooper786

My answer would be to set up a containment and treatment facility in the remotest place in the country and leave them there until they either got their heads straight or died.

lovely. how about we do that with people who are addicterd to spouting off insensitively about things of which they know little or nothing?

i believe in secure drug rehabilitation units rather than prison for those in the criminal justice system though. prison is not a good place to rehabilitate a drug addict and therefore to stop them reoffending.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by dooper786

As for drug treatment programs, well actual rehab programs are available both in the public and private sector.

You're average junkie can't normally afford a private treatment program and the ones that can don't always have a stellar success rate. Just see Pete 'Oxygen Thief' Doherty as proof of that.

Originally Posted by dooper786

Public sector treatment programs are a little less accessible though but it is quite possible to visit a licenced and certified GP who has the authority to assess and if necessary prescribe diamorphine in the form of Methadone to act as a substitute for street Heroin.

Methadone isn't an exact substitute, used properly it can help but it tends to be used (In Scotland at least) as a way of brushing the problem under the carpet.

Originally Posted by dooper786

The bottom line is that many Heroin addicts are just schemers, liars and are past masters at manipulation. They manipulate the system and to a greater extent,they manipulate and poison their families and friends.

Yep, some truely do want to kick the habit though and find the help they need isn't available.
Personally I'd like anyone arrested and convicted of any crimes like theft etc. to be sentenced to mandatory jail time and compulsory treatment until they are drug free before release.
Thats one thing that would really lower the crime rate.

Of course this would mean jails having to be drug free and more places being available which costs money PM-in waiting Brown isn't happy to give.

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by Jules

What ever they did for a living I am sure they have left behind people that loved and/or cared for them. I just hope the person that has done this is caught very soon

absolutely.
sorry, seem to have digressed a bit there.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

The problem is until his victims are "ordinary" women as opposed to prostitutes there will be a lot of people who dont care about this. Its sad that a victim's background can desensitise people to horrific crimes such as this.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

hmmm. there was a prostitute on the rado today weho claimed she was raped, reported it to the police who, she said, laughed and said "it goes with the job love."

if that story is true then prostitutes do not receive the same level of protection, the same duty of care, as others.

she also argued against legalisation saying that there would still be girls outside that system. i'm not sure of her argument there though as i'm sure girls and customers alike would prefer more secure environments - secure as in sexual health, protection from violence etc. but, of course, drug abuse is another factor and one which needs to be taken into account in the vicious cycle we currently have.

Hi HBTM, we obviously listened to the same program. I take your point about the womans' bad experience at the hands of the police when she reported a rape. Its not ideal but then the police are rather more battle hardened than the rest of us . They have to be for they deal with the evils,flotsam and jetsam and detritus of society on a daily basis. Although the copper could have been slightly more diplomatic, there is no doubt that there is truth in what he said. We all have a duty of care to ourselves to take stepsw to mitigate risks in everyday lives, whether it is crossing the road, walking up a dark alley or parading in the dark with a mini skirt and high heels and getting into strangers' cars. The greater the risk, the greater the chance that the outcome of taking that risk will be unfavourable. If i cross at a pelican crossing with a red light showing, the chances are better than 95% that i will make it to the other side. If i cross on green on a dark winters eve wearing dark clothing and without my contact lenses in, I wouldnt lay money on reaching the other side!

So then, if a girl chooses, despite the grave risks involved,to parade around in the dark at all hours,get into strnagers' cars and have sex with them, then it is implied and understood that she is taking an abnormal risk, of her own volition and should not be surprised if there is an unfavourable outcome.

Similarly, whilst a woman always must retain the right to refuse sexual intercourse there is a rather grey area with prostitution. Is the woman complaining of rape becuase she did not want intercourse to take place despite the fact that
(a) she probably has convictions for being a common prostitute
(b)she is probably out and about at a time and place known to be frequented by prostitutes
(c) she probably got into a strangers car having had some sort of discussion and it was obvious that that person was seeking paid sexual services

OR is she complaining of rape simply becuase the guy became aggresive and either refused to pay her or did not pay her enough, having availed himself of her services?

So then, are we REALLY dealing with a complaint of rape or are we dealing with the less serious civil offence of breach of contract? Of course such a contract could have no validity in law for it would be illegal to contract to solicit or supply an illegal service or goods.

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

The problem is until his victims are "ordinary" women as opposed to prostitutes there will be a lot of people who dont care about this. Its sad that a victim's background can desensitise people to horrific crimes such as this.

indeed, there was a programme on last year (i think) about the number of unsolved murders of prostitutes. one was my lad's mate's mother. still not solved and her mother is firmly of the opinion that the police didn't take as much interest as they might had her lifestyle been different.

the guardian (natch) did a piece on it too.

---------- Post added at 17:41 ---------- Previous post was at 17:40 ----------

doop, no woman is guilty of being raped. none.