Relationships and religion

[Xaccers]

We did have a rather good conversation about islam once, I think the problem was not many members are muslim or know much about islam, so not as much could be said.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

We did have a rather good conversation about islam once, I think the problem was not many members are muslim or know much about islam, so not as much could be said.

this might be off topic but its is about religion islam too

Former world snooker champion Ronnie O'Sullivan has become the latest in a long line of sportsmen and celebrities to convert to the fastest-growing religion

The 27-year-old, whose career has been blighted by drink and depression, was introduced to Islam by former world featherweight boxing champion Naseem Hamed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3155784.stm

it also mentions that islam indeed has a growing following in the uk

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by kronas

this might be off topic but its is about religion islam too

Former world snooker champion Ronnie O'Sullivan has become the latest in a long line of sportsmen and celebrities to convert to the fastest-growing religion

it also mentions that islam indeed has a growing following in the uk

You know, I'm sure the JW's claimed theirs was the fastest growing religion

Anyway, hope it helps him get his life in order.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Really?You think so.It's not what I've observed about the various postings about religion and christianity in recent days.

I thought the multi-ethnic teaching of religion was supposed to engender harmony as well as understanding but I've not been heartened by any indications that this is the case.

Mind the hardest and deepest squab...errr discussions about religion do seem to be between differing branches of the Christian faiths.Or maybe any discussion about the Hindu,Sikh and Muslim faiths might be seen as being possibly racist and the thought of the ensuing row err...sorry,discussion might be explosive.

But you are right,there are civilised folk who can discuss religion in a positive manner.However not many seem to take part in the religious discussions here,which do seem to have become jeering sessions lately.

Incog who got the RE prize when she left school.

I really do think so! You're right, we have had a few heated days recently, but that hasn't been the general pattern of discussion, certainly not as far as I've been aware for the year or so that I've been a member of nthw.com/.co.uk. I would prefer to put our recent squabbling down to a series of misunderstandings, bad days and rare flares of temper. I see no reason for it to become the norm - not least because it contravenes the forum rules!

I can honestly say that I think none the worse of any member of this forum as a result. If I have ever got into a bind with anyone in the forum (whether on a religious topic or other) I've talked it through with them on PM. We don't always agree at the end of the day but I don't leave it bearing a grudge and I do not believe they have either.

Faith is a very deeply held thing so it's natural that passions are aroused when mutually-exclusive truth claims clash. As long as all we look for is understanding and respect, and don't try to stray into forcing someone to believe something else, or try to synthesize everyone's belief into a homogenous theory of everything (that satisfies no-one), there's no reason for things to get ugly.

Originally Posted by kronas

this might be off topic but its is about religion islam too

Former world snooker champion Ronnie O'Sullivan has become the latest in a long line of sportsmen and celebrities to convert to the fastest-growing religion

The answer to this is demographics, not popularity. While there have been a few conversions to Islam by westerners - Cat Stevens and Ronnie O'Sullivan being high-profile examples - the true reason for the growth of Islam is the high birth rate in islamic countries, and in Muslim communities in the UK and other western countries.

The Bible is still the world's best-selling book!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by towny

Well, you completely misunderstood what I said. At no point have I said, or even implied, that I would never have married a non-Christian because she was different to me, or not as good as me. What I actually said (discussing my wife) was:



And on the subject of temptation, or breaking commandments, I said:



I know that accusing Christians of hypocrisy is a fun pastime - you'd just love it if there was an easy way to explain away what we believe. But I am at a loss to understand how anything Russ or I have posted in this thread has given you the impression that we go sinning 'when we feel like it'.

You are right, bigotry does work both ways. However I think in this case, for being so determined to see hypocrisy where there plainly is none, it's you that's the bigot.

I know the reply wasn't aimed in my direction but I dont think it's a case of accusing Christians of hypocrisy at all, and the last thing I want is for this to get into a big argument and get closed. My understanding of the bible is very limited but when I have put a point across to someone who is religious they have on many occassions quoted something from the bible that is totally opposite to my understanding.

A good example was yesterday when I quoted to the religious person that I started this thread about. I said "serial offenders should be given corporal punishment from a young age because they will re-offend if they are not dealt with and shown the error of their ways".
I then followed this up by saying "I guess you disagree with this view because the bible says everyone should be given another chance and we should turn the other cheek". (Or words to that effect)

The person then turned around and says, "No, the bible says save the stick and spoil the child" that is just an example that appears like hypocrisy to non -religious people because the bible contains many different views and christians appear to choose the one they want to suit their mood/situation.

I think if things were a little more black and white in the bible, I would be able to understand even though I am not a believer.

Originally Posted by Escapee

I know the reply wasn't aimed in my direction but I dont think it's a case of accusing Christians of hypocrisy at all, and the last thing I want is for this to get into a big argument and get closed. My understanding of the bible is very limited but when I have put a point across to someone who is religious they have on many occassions quoted something from the bible that is totally opposite to my understanding.

A good example was yesterday when I quoted to the religious person that I started this thread about. I said "serial offenders should be given corporal punishment from a young age because they will re-offend if they are not dealt with and shown the error of their ways".
I then followed this up by saying "I guess you disagree with this view because the bible says everyone should be given another chance and we should turn the other cheek". (Or words to that effect)

The person then turned around and says, "No, the bible says save the stick and spoil the child" that is just an example that appears like hypocrisy to non -religious people because the bible contains many different views and christians appear to choose the one they want to suit their mood/situation.

I think if things were a little more black and white in the bible, I would be able to understand even though I am not a believer.

Don't worry, I don't want the thread closed either - and I know most people on the boards here don't go round routinely accusing Christians of being hypocrites just for the fun of it.

Without wanting to stray compleeeetly off topic (if we haven't already ), Christians tend to say the reason the Bible is so complex is to make sure you read the whole of it ... important teaching about various Christian beliefs is scattered throughout the Bible, so you can't read about one doctrine without reading about one or two others at the same time. So if you read the whole thing, hopefully you learn God's full teaching, not just the bits of it that interest you.

On the specific example of corporal punishment...

The Bible is very clear that 'vengeance' or 'revenge' is God's job ... no matter who has done what to who, repayment for deeds done comes on judgement day and is God's responsibility. This is why I am anti-capital punishment. It serves no function except as state-sponsored revenge on the offender. Now, corporal punishment is different. If administered correctly it is not 'revenge' meted out in anger; it is discipline and correction meted out in love and concern for the future conduct of the offender. Any punishment handed down to an offender must satisfy these requirements in God's eyes; if they do not, it becomes vengeance which is trying to do God's job for him, or if no punishment is administered the offender learns nothing and is 'spoiled', to borrow the Bible's term.

BTW, I don't claim to be an expert - I've been a Bible-reading Christian for 13 years but I find the more I learn, the more questions I have... finding out is very satisfying though.

[Atomic22]

towny its just your "me and russ are holier than thou" attitude that annoys me and the way you believe only people that are as pious as you are real christians

Originally Posted by towny

This, ultimately, is why when considering something as serious as marriage I can't see how a relationship between a committed Christian and someone of another (or no particular) faith could work.

how do you know it wouldnt? thats damning half the world for not being as holy as you believe you are
i just dont like the presumptions you seem to be able to make about people you know nothing about , ie with the joke about escapees possible p0rn stash you presumed it was him that was the unbeliever and not his girlfriend before he even had chance to own up to it being him

lets drop this now as i have lost the will to carry on with this thread and i will not be posting in it again as i wouldnt want it to turn into anything other than banter

so till the next debate

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Atomic22

towny its just your "me and russ are holier than thou" attitude that annoys me and the way you believe only people that are as pious as you are real christians

That's not what Towny has said or meant.

Originally Posted by Atomic22

towny its just your "me and russ are holier than thou" attitude that annoys me and the way you believe only people that are as pious as you are real christians



how do you know it wouldnt? thats damning half the world for not being as holy as you believe you are
i just dont like the presumptions you seem to be able to make about people you know nothing about , ie with the joke about escapees possible p0rn stash you presumed it was him that was the unbeliever and not his girlfriend before he even had chance to own up to it being him

lets drop this now as i have lost the will to carry on with this thread and i will not be posting in it again as i wouldnt want it to turn into anything other than banter

so till the next debate

OK ... ... I still think you're misunderstanding me, and I certainly don't know how you concluded what you did based on what I said, but you're right, we don't want any more flaming in this forum. I'll resist the urge for a quote-by-quote reply .... nuff said.

[Atomic22]

Originally Posted by towny

OK ... ... I still think you're misunderstanding me, and I certainly don't know how you concluded what you did based on what I said, but you're right, we don't want any more flaming in this forum. I'll resist the urge for a quote-by-quote reply .... nuff said.

ok me too , it would be a sad world if we all had the same views on everything , and it would mean we would have nothing to debate in these forums....

Reading through the thread, there's some good/bad points for whatever you believe in. I personally believe in God (I'm Roman Catholic by the way), and there's just one sentence that sum's everything up for me, whether you believe in God or not and that is 'Love One Another'. If we could all do that, just think of what a wonderful world we could all share and enjoy together.

[Salu]

Originally Posted by kronas

escapee it really depends on if either of the persons are going to impose there views if they have differing views on religion you could be in for a interesting argument

but if both of them can live with each others views and let each other do as they please regarding religion and not force any views on each other it should work

The problem is that if you are going to be a "proper" Christian (for eg) you can't not impose your views on the other person. The only way to do this is to compromise your faith and make up your own rules. Unfortunately Christianity doesn't really cater for Pick n Mix beliefs. Sure, you can choose to ignore them but are you really adhering to the faith then?

Kronas, the above sounds noble and courteous but rules is rules. Christianity is based on absolute Truth and not a bit of this and a bit of that inorder to fit into today's society.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Drudge

May I wish those to whom this is addressed


EID MUBARAK

Thank you

thank you very much to the only person to have the knowledge and indeed broke 'out of the box' to comment like this

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by kronas

thank you very much to the only person to have the knowledge and indeed broke 'out of the box' to comment like this

I had to laugh when I went shopping a couple of days ago.
Two women were behind the desk, one mentioned she'd not had alcohol for nearly a month, her friend asked why, and she replied "ramadam"
So she'll drink the rest of the time...

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Salu

The problem is that if you are going to be a "proper" Christian (for eg) you can't not impose your views on the other person. The only way to do this is to compromise your faith and make up your own rules. Unfortunately Christianity doesn't really cater for Pick n Mix beliefs. Sure, you can choose to ignore them but are you really adhering to the faith then?

ive just had the wonderful experiance of meeting some new freinds over the past few months i got to know them the inevitible question was 'popped' to me

are you religious ?

i said im absolutely not to the shock and dismay of everybody in the room i got the whole 3rd degree your family members are blah blah you will go to hell blah blah

ofcourse i made my feelings perfectly clear you DO NOT talk to me about religion people on this forum know what i think about religion

ive had 4 occasions where ive had a 'discussion' with these people and i had a long chat with them and there beliefs i even argued for womens rights which they so seem to neglect

on the 4th occasion i lost my patience and went over from where i was sat and in a threatening manner pointed to the person making obscene comments to 'shut it' and do not talk to me about religion do i make obscene comments about your religion NO

if i did i think they would have burned me alive and im being serious needless to say i hardly see them anymore because (A they treat me diffarently (b they just wont stop talking to me about religion

Originally Posted by Salu

Kronas, the above sounds noble and courteous but rules is rules. Christianity is based on absolute Truth and not a bit of this and a bit of that inorder to fit into today's society.

religious people dont have one thing thats tolerance to be able to tolerate a differing view..... a relationship can work but a 'love relationship' needs to be strong and have a mutual respect for each others view on religion