Sword Man shot dead...

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by greencreeper

The armed police tend to be gun-ho ex-squaddies who couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. The shoot to kill policy is based on the claimed inaccuracy of the weapons - i.e. can't hit an arm so have to aim for the torso. Hmmm. Christ. They shot a bloke with a sword It's like Indiana Jones only not as funny.

That's not fair on the Police. As has been stated before, we do not know the full facts of the situation.

You also appear to be under the assumption that the Police send armed officers everywhere. They don't. The procedure they have to go through to send an armed unit out is long, and complicated. It is deliberately designed to be long and complicated, specifically so they DON'T send out the armed units unecessarily. As a rule, in the past anyway, our Police have preferred to negotiate their way out of a situation such as this. I have a friend who's father drove one of the Police's Armed Response Vehicles, and got this from him.

Also, bear in mind that, even if you are trained to do so, killing someone is not an easy thing to get over, and is not done lightly. They *are* trained to kill someone if they believe either a member of the public, themselves, or another police officer are in danger though.

I have also read reports that back up EoB's post. It is (apparently*) almost impossible to hit a small target such as an arm in a situation like that. There are too many variables to take account of (e.g. Wind can knock bullets slightly off course or the person being shot may move) . Hollywood likes us to think otherwise, but then Hollywood likes us to think that every cop can shoot out the tires of a moving car, despite that being almost impossible too, hence the real police using things such as Stingers.

I find it amazing that several people have questioned why the Police shot a guy, but no one seems to be asking why that guy was wandering up and down a dual carriageway waving a sword and threatening people.

For the record, while I don't generally agree with the use of guns (see my previous posts on this forum and .com for proof of that), they do have a use. Based on the stories I have read, I believe that the Police were right to use them on this occasion.

One final point. The police had already tried to pacify him. They initially fired Baton rounds. These, as I understand them, are large plastic bullets designed to incapacitate, but not kill whoever they are shot at. These had NO EFFECT on the guy.

* Note, I have never actually fired a real gun myself, so am basing this on what I have read. I have fired Paintball guns a few times, and know from experience that wind can knock your aim off, and have been told it can affect bullets in the same way.

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Too Close? A sword has a range of a few feet. Police tasers have a ranges up to 20ft.

Tell you what, I'll get the lend of my mates Bokken, I'll find something to represent a Tazer. Then standing 20 feet apart, I'll go for you. If you hit me I stop, if you miss I'll clatter you with the Bokken. I know its hardly a scientific experiment, but it *will* give you an idea what its like to have to aim, and fire at a live target.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by greencreeper

The armed police tend to be gun-ho ex-squaddies who couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. The shoot to kill policy is based on the claimed inaccuracy of the weapons - i.e. can't hit an arm so have to aim for the torso. Hmmm. Christ. They shot a bloke with a sword It's like Indiana Jones only not as funny.

What a load of ********

He's crashed his vehicle, he's then trying to hijack another vehicle whilst brandishing a sword.

He fired upon wityh baton rounds, whilst no doubt being informed that there are armed police and he should put the sword down and lie on the ground and he decides to continue towards the armed police with the sword.

Stupid ****** got what he deserved

[Xaccers]

MP5's although accurate, are not sniper rifles, they are machine pistols, basically high capacity magazined fully automatic pistols (I don't know if they police have full auto versions, didn't get a close enough look last time I was at heathrow)
They have an effective range of about 50m, but it would be a very lucky shot to hit someone moving in the arm at range.
Some forces have been issued with G36's (ala Alien V Preditor) but again, aren't likely to be fitted with sniper scopes and even so, hitting someone at range in the arm doesn't take out the threat, they can still keep coming, potentially keep killing, especially if baton rounds didn't stop them!

Originally Posted by Xaccers

MP5's although accurate, are not sniper rifles, they are machine pistols, basically high capacity magazined fully automatic pistols (I don't know if they police have full auto versions, didn't get a close enough look last time I was at heathrow)

AFAIK, all British Police Forces use the carbine version of the MP5 (semi-automatic only).

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by Pierre

What a load of ********

He's crashed his vehicle, he's then trying to hijack another vehicle whilst brandishing a sword.

He fired upon wityh baton rounds, whilst no doubt being informed that there are armed police and he should put the sword down and lie on the ground and he decides to continue towards the armed police with the sword.

Stupid ****** got what he deserved

I thought this sounded like a person under the influence of drugs and then that's what I read in today's paper - that there's a suspicion of drugs involved.

Anyone who drives the wrong way down a road and then trys to hijack a vehicle using a sword deserves to be shot dead in my opinion.

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

I thought this sounded like a person under the influence of drugs and then that's what I read in today's paper - that there's a suspicion of drugs involved.

Anyone who drives the wrong way down a road and then trys to hijack a vehicle using a sword deserves to be shot dead in my opinion.

Well you could probably at least make the assumption that they are not of sound mind...