Moving out of area - contract? - Page 3

danielf · 23-02-2005, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by intalex

<snip>

Actually, now that I have done the maths, maybe this wouldn't be a bad idea after all, with a saving of ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£2 each month!!! Once my 12 months with NTL are over, I could also transfer my ADSL to a faster provider. Sounds like a win-win situation to me !!! I shall think this over later today!

That's assuming they don't lock you in to a 12 month contract for freedom

Sorry, just being cynical here.

Edit: You could also try telling them you will be forced to cancel tv/phone on the new address if they force you on freedom, and see how they react.

intalex · 23-02-2005, 13:18

I'm sure what you are saying might just turn out to be the case. I would probably be tempted into contesting a new 12-month contract, but I'll probably save my energy instead because at the end of the day, I will still be saving money, getting 512k broadband instead of 300k broadband, and overall, NTL will have less business from me than they could have had (with cancellation of my phone and TV package).

Neil · 23-02-2005, 14:37

Also remember that the Freedom Tech Support phone line is charged at 75 pence per minute (should you ever need to ring it)

intalex · 23-02-2005, 14:53

Yeah, I'm not too keen on NTL's ADSL either, so I think I'm gonna keep trying to get out of it. Will keep you updated on the progress.

Neil · 23-02-2005, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by intalex

Yeah, I'm not too keen on NTL's ADSL either, so I think I'm gonna keep trying to get out of it. Will keep you updated on the progress.

There are far better DSL products out there too (uncapped too), have a read of www.adslguide.org.uk for a better idea.

intalex · 23-02-2005, 15:35

I have no doubt that there are better ISP's around. I'm after a very basic connection seeing that I only use the Internet for email, web-browsing and MSN really. Can you recommend any ADSL suppliers which are cheap? Could well be capped seeing that I don't see myself downloading more than 1GB each month.

scrotnig · 23-02-2005, 15:54

Let's be frank here. Whilst I don't agree that the changing of the rules as described was a good idea, at the end of the day it works like this.

If you agree to rent a house and sign a year long lease, and then decide to move after six months, the landlord is entitled to charge you to the end of the lease. It's the same with cable and other services. When you sign up, you are agreeing a 12 month contract. That's not '12 months as long as it suits me', it is a straight 12 months, no arguments.

ntl used to give some leeway on this if you were moving to a non-cabled area, but now it seems they don't. Telewest NEVER did. Whilst it can be argued all night whether it's a good policy, and I happen to think it isn't, the fact remains it's entirely legal and it shows once again that people should read what they are signing up to before they sign it.

The council tax comparison is not relevant since that is a legal obligation not an optional service, and is also not subject to any minimum term...you can move out of the area and not be liable for the rest of the year at that property.

intalex · 23-02-2005, 16:10

Tell me something Scrotnig... seeing that, when signing up, I knew that I was only going to be at the old address for 3-4 months, was I plain stupid to have signed up to a 12-month contract anyway?

I have said this before, and will repeat myself once again - the salesperson assured me that NTL will either transfer the same service to my new address or if it's not possible to do this, then they will cancel my contract without penalty.

This was a verbal agreement and one of the conditions under which I made the purchase!!!

Now it is NTL who are changing their story and breaking their promise. I am doing exactly what I had always intended to do, so how is it fair for me to be liable to see out my contract when it is clearly contrasting to what my salesperson told me?

One could argue that if I don't have it in writing, it was never promised to me, but then again, does that mean that there is no value of a verbal promise?

Derek · 23-02-2005, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by intalex

seeing that, when signing up, I knew that I was only going to be at the old address for 3-4 months, was I plain stupid to have signed up to a 12-month contract anyway?

Yes.

intalex · 24-02-2005, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezzo

Yes.

Thanx very much!!

cr80123 · 24-02-2005, 17:03

Signing a year long contract to rent a house is inherently agreeing not to move for a year. I think ntl would find it very hard to persuade a court that by signing their 12 month broadband contract you are also agreeing not to move for a year, simply because they cannot supply the services specified at an alternative address.

h3adru5h · 28-02-2005, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by intalex

I have said this before, and will repeat myself once again - the salesperson assured me that NTL will either transfer the same service to my new address or if it's not possible to do this, then they will cancel my contract without penalty.

This was a verbal agreement and one of the conditions under which I made the purchase!!!

Now it is NTL who are changing their story and breaking their promise. I am doing exactly what I had always intended to do, so how is it fair for me to be liable to see out my contract when it is clearly contrasting to what my salesperson told me?

One could argue that if I don't have it in writing, it was never promised to me, but then again, does that mean that there is no value of a verbal promise?

It is important to remember this...

When the saleperson advised you of the above, then it may have been possible to leave the contract early at the discretion of the person handling your disconnection. This process has now been tightened up however and the terms & conditions are specific in pointing out that you will agree to a 12 month minimum term. Future house moves my be unforseen, however to be completely realistic, ntl: is a business and by tightening up the belt with this process, they have enabled better security of assets and prevention of potential losses. In other words... they are simply protecting an investment in the same way most other companies do.

It is completely legal to offer you ntl: freedom should you move to a different area for the remainder of the 12 months minimum term. Alternatively however you may cancel the services with 30 days notice and be charged an early termination fee (calculated on basic services per month for the remainder of the 12 months agreement). You have agreed to accept ntl: services for a period of 12 months regardless of the address. Should you move abroad however then you will not be expected to accept ntl: freedom and instead the early termination fee will be applicable.

You state above that the advice given by the sales advisor forms a verbal agreement. It's important to state however that any agreement you have with ntl: and vice-versa is built on the terms & conditions which may be changed at any time should ntl: deem it fit or relevant to do so. The terms & conditions online will naturally be amended to reflect this change in order to allow customers to view this change.

intalex · 01-03-2005, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by h3adru5h

It is important to remember this...

When the saleperson advised you of the above, then it may have been possible to leave the contract early at the discretion of the person handling your disconnection. This process has now been tightened up however and the terms & conditions are specific in pointing out that you will agree to a 12 month minimum term. Future house moves my be unforseen, however to be completely realistic, ntl: is a business and by tightening up the belt with this process, they have enabled better security of assets and prevention of potential losses. In other words... they are simply protecting an investment in the same way most other companies do.

It is completely legal to offer you ntl: freedom should you move to a different area for the remainder of the 12 months minimum term. Alternatively however you may cancel the services with 30 days notice and be charged an early termination fee (calculated on basic services per month for the remainder of the 12 months agreement). You have agreed to accept ntl: services for a period of 12 months regardless of the address. Should you move abroad however then you will not be expected to accept ntl: freedom and instead the early termination fee will be applicable.

You state above that the advice given by the sales advisor forms a verbal agreement. It's important to state however that any agreement you have with ntl: and vice-versa is built on the terms & conditions which may be changed at any time should ntl: deem it fit or relevant to do so. The terms & conditions online will naturally be amended to reflect this change in order to allow customers to view this change.

There were (and still are) no terms regarding moving houses in the t&c's. This is why I had to get clarification from my salesperson regarding this situation because I knew I was going to move houses within 3-4 months of signing up (so it was not unforseen). It's not that I want to get rid of NTL's services seeing that I was quite happy with my connection and the cost, and this is why I would have really preferred to have my broadband connection transferred rather than cancelled.

When you tell me that the contract may be cancelled at the discretion of the person handling my disconnection, it gives me a clear sign of inconsistency with their "unwritten" policies. It's kind of "ring in and hope that you get someone in a good mood".

The bottomline is that if my salesperson had told me that I will be stuck with the 12-month contract even if I moved to Mars, then I would not have signed up - it's as simple as that. I signed up because he assured me that NTL would cancel my contract if they can't supply me with cable broadband at my new address. As for NTL Freedom, I don't mind taking it up as long as NTL are willing to pay for the "added cost" of a BT Line.

As for changing the t&c's as and when NTL feel necessary, I'm sure there's a clause on it somewhere (naturally) to say that customers can cancel their contracts if they are unhappy with any major changes in the t&c's.

h3adru5h · 01-03-2005, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by intalex

When you tell me that the contract may be cancelled at the discretion of the person handling my disconnection, it gives me a clear sign of inconsistency with their "unwritten" policies. It's kind of "ring in and hope that you get someone in a good mood".

Which is why the belt has been tightened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intalex

As for changing the t&c's as and when NTL feel necessary, I'm sure there's a clause on it somewhere (naturally) to say that customers can cancel their contracts if they are unhappy with any major changes in the t&c's.

nope - you have agreed to accept the changes; which will not be unfair as the contract may then contravene the unfair contract terms act. You are however entitled to cancel without penalty if there is a price increase, a significant reduction in service or the network is killed in your area (no longer serviceable). This is stated in the terms & conditions.

danielf · 01-03-2005, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by h3adru5h

Which is why the belt has been tightened.

nope - you have agreed to accept the changes; which will not be unfair as the contract may then contravene the unfair contract terms act. You are however entitled to cancel without penalty if there is a price increase, a significant reduction in service or the network is killed in your area (no longer serviceable). This is stated in the terms & conditions.

Or if there is a significant change in the terms and conditions...

Quote:

if we significantly reduce the content of the Services or make any significant change to the terms and conditions of this Agreement under Condition 26, you may terminate this Agreement by giving us one month's notice in writing within 30 days of such change irrespective of whether the minimum period in respect of such Services has expired.

NTL do not have the right to change as T&C 'as they see fit'. A significant change can be cause for termination on the part of the customer.

They also have to give written notification:

Quote:

We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions of this Agreement and/or the Services which we provide to you as soon as is reasonably practicable by giving written notice to you prior to the changes being introduced referring to this Condition. We will also publish details of any changes (including the operative date) in each of our main offices and on our web-site as soon as possible prior to the changes being introduced. Your rights to cancel the Services if we make any significant change to the terms and conditions of this Agreement are set out in Condition 20.1(ii).