Compensation for loss of service?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

/pulls up chair, gets popcorn, and settles in for a night of word Boxing ...
Ding Ding Round Three

Nemmy, please tell me that you at least understand what I'm getting at???

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by toytown

<snip>

If you were to have the same problems with your other utilities like electricity/gas/water would you accept the same level of incompetance?

No, I'd cut my losses and give my heard earned cash to another company...

[Nemesis]

Guarantees are subjective ... it's all down to the small print.

A Guarantee entitles the user/purchaser to receive a replacement product, or have the faulty goods fixed. That's basically it.

BT offer no better a guarantee that NTL, when applied to the service, as BT cannot offer a "fault free service".

How each company deals with a fault/problem is extremely diverse. To compare BT with NTL on this point is unfair.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Neil we're not taling about guarantees in general - go back to my post where you picked this up, I stated about no-one guaranteeing a fault free service - fault free means no fault - not that if there is a fault we'll sort it so you're not affected.

Please stop twisting my words to suit you.

Makes a change I'm backing Neil on this one.

Nobody can guarantee a fault free service. Of course they cannot.

What they can guarantee is the action they will take to resolve that fault and compensate the customer for the inconvinience that fault has caused, time off work waiting for an engineer, extra mobile phone call costs, inability to do things they would prefer to do. NTL do not seem to be able to offer such a guarantee or compensation, merely best endevours. BT, Kingston etc do offer such a guarantee (what does TW do anybody?).

BT's compensation scheme is not set by government or because it was once the state providor of telco, it is part of the value add of their service. They believe that they can get more customers having and honouring such a guarantee, than by not.

It's the same in many other industries, where the better perfoming manufacturers offer better guarantees, Mielie's 10 year guarantee for household appliances, Dyson 2 years on erm Dysons. Honda and the Japanese car manufacturers when they moved from a 1 year 12,000 mile to 3 year 60,000 mile warranty.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Neil

A guarantee is exactly that, a promise that if something goes wrong that it will be sorted.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Neil

Do ntl have such a gurantee? (no)

Actually yes they do, it's in the terms and conditions.

Originally Posted by Neil

All they say is that they "don't gurantee a fault free service"-not what they guarantee to do if it does develop a fault.

Nor do BT, or anyone, it's usually best endeavours ...

Originally Posted by Neil

Whatever way you look at it-BT offer a guarantee.....

Words are great, where's the evidence that it actually happens ??

[Nemesis]

This argument can be applied to other industries as well .... Cars, Washing Machines, Driers, Tele's. There will be Heaven and Hell stories there too.

Not everyone operated the same way, some are better some are worse. But NTL are NOT that bad at fixing faults, once they have recognised the fact that there is one.

The biggest fault with NTL is the CS, more training and understanding of their own Network.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Makes a change I'm backing Neil on this one.

Nobody can guarantee a fault free service. Of course they cannot.

What they can guarantee is the action they will take to resolve that fault and compensate the customer for the inconvinience that fault has caused, time off work waiting for an engineer, extra mobile phone call costs, inability to do things they would prefer to do. NTL do not seem to be able to offer such a guarantee or compensation, merely best endevours. BT, Kingston etc do offer such a guarantee (what does TW do anybody?).

BT's compensation scheme is not set by government or because it was once the state providor of telco, it is part of the value add of their service. They believe that they can get more customers having and honouring such a guarantee, than by not.

It's the same in many other industries, where the better perfoming manufacturers offer better guarantees, Mielie's 10 year guarantee for household appliances, Dyson 2 years on erm Dysons. Honda and the Japanese car manufacturers when they moved from a 1 year 12,000 mile to 3 year 60,000 mile warranty.

Holy crap, what does it take to get you people to read just what is typed, not expand on what you like to think I may have typed just so you can catch me out?????

I quoted that no-one gurantees a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!!!),and that I would eat my hat if any other company did offer a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!). And no-one does, not even BT. I made no comparison to what either company do in the event of a fault.


However, please feel free to ad lib on my words, to suit your own argument....

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Guarantees are subjective ... it's all down to the small print.

A Guarantee entitles the user/purchaser to receive a replacement product, or have the faulty goods fixed. That's basically it.

BT offer no better a guarantee that NTL, when applied to the service, as BT cannot offer a "fault free service".

How each company deals with a fault/problem is extremely diverse. To compare BT with NTL on this point is unfair.

Halle- bloody- luja. Someone gets it, someone actually looked at my point OBJECTIVELY, WITHOUT BIAS, OR PREJUDICE. I luv you Nemmy. XX

[Neil]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Halle- bloody- luja. Someone gets it, someone actually looked at my point OBJECTIVELY, WITHOUT BIAS, OR PREJUDICE. I luv you Nemmy. XX

But ntl still don't offer the same guarantees that BT do !

I do take your point btw OB (you know I do )

Just for the record-I know no one "guarantees" a fault free service, but they kinda do, as a "guarantee" is something that you put into place in the event of a failure-I.E you buy a brand new car, it is "guaranteed" against breaking down, that doesn't mean it won't break down, it just means that you are covered against costs/replacement car etc etc in the event of a breakdown.

If you get my drift.....

[th'engineer]

I remember being with BT when my phone was down for three days due to water damage in the cables tto the exchange they sent me a hamper it was a total surprise.

An apology letter and free call credit

No arguing with CS no having to ring up many times

I was quite impressed, a few months later got talked into cable TV with a Cable and Wireless salesman, cheaper calls to the middle east etc ( now more expensive with NTL).

You must admit NTL need to learn to compensate like BT

Originally Posted by orangebird

I quoted that no-one gurantees a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!!!),and that I would eat my hat if any other company did offer a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!). And no-one does, not even BT. I made no comparison to what either company do in the event of a fault.

I agree, no one offers a fault free service. However, I, and I would guess a good many other people, would take this to refer to faults in the technical sense, a broken cable, a downed line, that sort of thing. I do not assume that they mean fault in the general sense of the term.

In this instance, as it has been described in the original post, it is not a fault, it is an error on the part of NTL that could have been entirely avoided, and is due to incompetence on the part of one of more individuals.

Do you not think NTL have an obligation to provide a service without making this sort of stupid mistake? This is not an issue that was beyond their control, this is an issue entirely within their control. Whether the problem be poor training or a monkey in the workplace, NTL need to pay attention to this situation and ensure that it does not happen again. As has been stated earlier, a telephone can be an important lifeline for some people and it is simply not acceptable for that lifeline to be removed simply because there is some idiot dealing with customer accounts.

If I were in this situation you can bet your life that I would be pushing for an apology, I would be pushing for some form of compensation, and I would be pushing for a guarantee that this sort of problem wouldn`t happen again. This is not a back-hoe incident, this is an error with procedure and process, and those should be structure to ensure that this sort of mistake cannot be made. Given the context of the guarantee asked for in the original post, I honestly do not believe that this is an unreasonable demand to make.

I know you like to defend NTL, loyalty to an employer is commendable, but sometimes you are attempting to defend the indefensible. There is a fine line between blind loyalty and blind ignorance, I would hope you do not make the mistake of crossing that line.

[gooner4life]

I spoke to a guy today who has had no telephone service with BT for 2 weeks now, apparantly a construction issue has cropped up after they installed him and started charging him for the service, he has been offered no compensation and no explanation about why this wasnt picked up before the install, hes now disconnecting with them and getting an NTL phone line.

Originally Posted by th'engineer

I remember being with BT when my phone was down for three days due to water damage in the cables tto the exchange they sent me a hamper it was a total surprise.

An apology letter and free call credit

No arguing with CS no having to ring up many times

I was quite impressed, a few months later got talked into cable TV with a Cable and Wireless salesman, cheaper calls to the middle east etc ( now more expensive with NTL).

You must admit NTL need to learn to compensate like BT

They do too much of that and they will cut into the bosses bonus.

Incog.

Originally Posted by gooner4life

I spoke to a guy today who has had no telephone service with BT for 2 weeks now, apparantly a construction issue has cropped up after they installed him and started charging him for the service, he has been offered no compensation and no explanation about why this wasnt picked up before the install, hes now disconnecting with them and getting an NTL phone line.

This does not mean he has'nt jumped from the frying pan into the fire does it?
It is all about how companies handle their customers, forget all this, well divide your monthly rental by x and this is all you get.
Do'nt say, well BT do the same thing, because it is not BT that NTL should be concerned with, it is keeping hold of your customers, and that means moving the earth to do it.
Yes, faults cannot be avoided, we know that, but sometimes NTL just seem incapable of giving what they spout they will, and when a problem occurs the customer is treated like just an annoying piece of rubbish on the heel of their feet.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

This does not mean he has'nt jumped from the frying pan into the fire does it?
It is all about how companies handle their customers, forget all this, well divide your monthly rental by x and this is all you get.
Do'nt say, well BT do the same thing, because it is not BT that NTL should be concerned with, it is keeping hold of your customers, and that means moving the earth to do it.
Yes, faults cannot be avoided, we know that, but sometimes NTL just seem incapable of giving what they spout they will, and when a problem occurs the customer is treated like just an annoying piece of rubbish on the heel of their feet.

Well summed up.