is 5mbit upload just round the corner? - Page 3

Chrysalis · 13-06-2010, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

I am very excited now, we have never been part of any trials in Lincoln and have always been middle of the pack on rollout schedules

I dont think they'll be increasing the upstream on other tiers chrysalis, what they are doing for 50mbit customers is what they said they were going to do a year ago so it isnt anything new.

Am I supposed to be able to upload at 5mbit now or are they still playing around with it? Everyone who i have spoken to cant get above 2mbit atm

ignition's blog hints at all tiers been upgraded, also a guy on here has 2mbit upload on the 20mbit tier.

General Maximus · 13-06-2010, 17:08

the bummer is that while we hang around for VM to do upgrades you can get better elsewhere. They said last year that we would get 5mbit up once 50mbit had been fully rolled out (which was July last year) and we are only getting it now. 100mbit is going to have 10mbit up but we probably wont get that for another 2 years.

I have just been doing some digging and you can get 40/10 on BT Infinity and they are increasing that to 40/15 in September. They are the sort of ratios VM should be looking at. I would consider switching but out of the 5 million exchanges they have upgraded, they havent managed to get round to Lincoln yet

BenMcr · 13-06-2010, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

100mbit is going to have 10mbit up but we probably wont get that for another 2 years.

I'm pretty sure 100Mbit would have 10Mbit at launch

General Maximus · 13-06-2010, 17:43

fingers crossed. I am hoping they are planning for that and are going to be forced into making it 15 or 20 to compete with BT

Chrysalis · 13-06-2010, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I'm pretty sure 100Mbit would have 10Mbit at launch

so if 100 and 50 share the same docsis2 and with no STM then they will be in a situation where only 1 user can upload at full speed at a time and 2 will cause jitter/latency issues for everyone.

Its becoming more and more common now days for people to push their upload for long periods of time as there is a growing obsession with people uploading on p2p, ignition I guess will jump in to calm me down but he himself also has noticed upload tends to be less bursty with more people pushing it.

BenMcr · 13-06-2010, 19:32

As I'm not a techy person I have no clue what it would/wouldn't do or what work Virgin are doing.

Personally though, I think it again shows just how odd our idea of broadband has become

Most people seem to want no traffic management, the cheapest possible service AND the ability to upload and download 24/7 at full speed.

To me those three are just not compatible with one another no matter which way you look at it. Even if you do manage to do it the cost of doing so long term must be interesting to say the least!

General Maximus · 13-06-2010, 19:49

i agree with you Ben which is why i think you should have both. Have a value tier (take what ithey currently offer atm) put reasonable caps and limits in place and make the price appealing (like what they do now). These appeal only to people who care about the price and nothing else like Asda shoppers. Also offer a 2nd service which is better quality, offers guaranteed speed and costs more

e.g 10/5, 20/10 and 50/20, all with no limits and guaranteed speed.

I would gladly pay twice the price I am now if I could have a 30/15 or 40/15 with guaranteed speed.

As for Chrysalis, I hate to state the obvious but if they are going to be screwed with docsis 2 cant they just love the upstream to the docsis for the 50mbit customers like they did with the downstream?

AdamD · 13-06-2010, 20:47

5mb upload would be nice, but it's still pretty stingy compared to other countries offerings.

Ah well, maybe things will change once BT's Fibre offerings start going out.

Ignitionnet · 13-06-2010, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

As I'm not a techy person I have no clue what it would/wouldn't do or what work Virgin are doing.

Personally though, I think it again shows just how odd our idea of broadband has become

Most people seem to want no traffic management, the cheapest possible service AND the ability to upload and download 24/7 at full speed.

To me those three are just not compatible with one another no matter which way you look at it. Even if you do manage to do it the cost of doing so long term must be interesting to say the least!

Good consistent quality, cheap, fast - pick 2.

It's a symptom of the mass market dive to the bottom costs wise regrettably.

http://www.upc.nl/internet/

Those prices are competing against fibre to the home, and are extra on top of TV and phone packages.

---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamD

5mb upload would be nice, but it's still pretty stingy compared to other countries offerings.

Ah well, maybe things will change once BT's Fibre offerings start going out.

See above, and those tiers are the ones that UPC are rolling out around Europe. Not that stingy at all mate, 10:1 is about par for the course.

Even Sweden it's 100/10:

http://www.comhem.se/comhem/bredband...8/-/index.html

Chrysalis · 13-06-2010, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

As I'm not a techy person I have no clue what it would/wouldn't do or what work Virgin are doing.

Personally though, I think it again shows just how odd our idea of broadband has become

Most people seem to want no traffic management, the cheapest possible service AND the ability to upload and download 24/7 at full speed.

To me those three are just not compatible with one another no matter which way you look at it. Even if you do manage to do it the cost of doing so long term must be interesting to say the least!

correct they not compatible.

VM are defenitly not cheap on all their packages tho, £33 in some cases for broadband when we have some isps selling adsl for under £10 on ipstream and managing to provide not brilliant but workable solutions. So why are VM struggling with much higher revenue streams and where they own the infrastructure so middle man to pay. Even if I were to take the bottom package it is £20 a month without a phoneline.

Personally I have no problem with some usage caps (as long as reasonable not something silly like 10 gig month), alongside some type of traffic priority system that doesnt protocol discriminate. If we make the assumption most of VM's capacity issues are upstream related then I would defenitly take traffic management on upstream only. I havent checked VM's t&c's but most isp's tend to forbid people serving content on consumer broadband which technically would not only cover people hosting servers but should also cover people doing things like been a torrent seed/peer. However although many isp's forbid it they rarely enforce it.

1mbit upload on the 10mbit package to me actually seems generous, BT do have some customers in 21CN areas still only with 448kbit and even those uncapped will be dependent on line conditions and BT's aweful DLM system. 2mbit upload on 20mbit also seems generous but at the same time I think 768kbit is restrictive. But looking at the competition with what BE/O2 and now BT FTTC offer VM have no real choice here their hand has been forced.

Given how poor FTTC pricing is so far if I was VM I would rollout the speed upgrades with docsis2. But also I would set a low usage cap on uploading and launch a premium high priced product around the FTTC price that allows high upload usage.

General Maximus · 13-06-2010, 21:19

the way i would look at it dude is that 10mbit is the bottom tier and the only peeps who are going to take it are the people who are going to say "just give me the cheapest, i just want to be able to connect to the internet and send the odd email and check the weather forecast" etc etc.

Although 10/1 sounds nice it isnt something peeps on that tier should need. Tbh I would would scrap 10mmbit and go to 5/0.5 and a budget occassional use tier with caps in place (e.g 10gb per month), 20/2 as a medium tier for gamers etc with a 100gb/month cap and 50/15 as a preium unrestricted tier.

Chrysalis · 13-06-2010, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

the way i would look at it dude is that 10mbit is the bottom tier and the only peeps who are going to take it are the people who are going to say "just give me the cheapest, i just want to be able to connect to the internet and send the odd email and check the weather forecast" etc etc.

Although 10/1 sounds nice it isnt something peeps on that tier should need. Tbh I would would scrap 10mmbit and go to 5/0.5 and a budget occassional use tier with caps in place (e.g 10gb per month), 20/2 as a medium tier for gamers etc with a 100gb/month cap and 50/15 as a preium unrestricted tier.

agreed make the bottom package lower speed, I have said this for a while that isp's need to treat burst speed with more value, they give it away for too cheap.

even if people need to pay VM a decent wedge for unmetered high speed upload lets say £50 month, VM can turn round and say "hey we provide it, this is our market value of the service take it or leave it". They need to call the bluff on people and stop been so paranoid of people leaving.

My take would be something like this as I also think 20mbit is too close to the 10mbit pricing.

bottom tier 5mbit/384kbit or even 256kbit
middle tier extra £3 month over current price and 20mbit/1.5mbit - this beats the 1.3mbit limit on adsl2 annexA
50mbit tier 50mbit/5mbit
all 3 tiers usage capped on uploading at a level that severely discourages serving content.
premium 50mbit tier 50mbit/5mbit with either high usage limit or unmetered for £50 month supplied over docsis3 upstream
premium 100mbit tier served over full docsis3 up/down at no less than £80 month fully unmetered.

Ignitionnet · 13-06-2010, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

the way i would look at it dude is that 10mbit is the bottom tier and the only peeps who are going to take it are the people who are going to say "just give me the cheapest, i just want to be able to connect to the internet and send the odd email and check the weather forecast" etc etc.

Although 10/1 sounds nice it isnt something peeps on that tier should need. Tbh I would would scrap 10mmbit and go to 5/0.5 and a budget occassional use tier with caps in place (e.g 10gb per month), 20/2 as a medium tier for gamers etc with a 100gb/month cap and 50/15 as a preium unrestricted tier.

The only 15Mbps upstream I can think of seeing on cable has a price tag attached to it that would make people whine and cry.

http://optimum.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...p?p_faqid=2410

Quote:

Optimum Online Ultra offers download speeds of up to 101 Mbps and upload speeds up to 15 Mbps upstream, plus all the features of Optimum Online Boost.

Optimum Online Ultra is available for $99.95 per month. There is a one-time $300 activation fee. Optimum Online Ultra also requires professional installation and an additional installation fee of up to $34.95 may apply.

People on this side of the Atlantic whinge about the less than $50 activation fee on VM's 50Mbps, and expect VM to kiss their feet and supply a flawless 'Premium' product in return for the less than $45/month bundled price. I really seriously doubt they'd pay more.

The tiers you advocate are commercial suicide given the sub-20GBP/month uncapped deals available from O2, Be and Sky.

AdamD · 13-06-2010, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Not that stingy at all mate, 10:1 is about par for the course.

Even Sweden it's 100/10:

http://www.comhem.se/comhem/bredband...8/-/index.html

A friend of mine who's Swedish pointed out a website which offers a much better ratio than that

http://bredband.bahnhof.se/net/stockholm_3in1

1 Mbit/s 0 kr/mån (139 kr/mån)
10 Mbit/s 0 kr/mån (229 kr/mån)
30/30 Mbit/s 0 kr/mån (269 kr/mån)
100/10 Mbit/s 0 kr/mån (289 kr/mån)
100/100 Mbit/s 0 kr/mån (319 kr/mån)

So 100/100 is - £27.69 a month

Chrysalis · 13-06-2010, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The only 15Mbps upstream I can think of seeing on cable has a price tag attached to it that would make people whine and cry.

http://optimum.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...p?p_faqid=2410

optimum got the price right in my view

I think as long as VM have a cheap option then they should not worry about the pricing on their premium products.

If VM upped 50mbit back to £50 as an example, people would whinge but they wouldnt hit the cancel button, most likely they would whinge and put up with it or downgrade to a lower tier.