Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Originally Posted by Jimi

Jeez,I had hardly typed out a reply tae Chris (cable forum mod) when two more mods jump in like a shot,are you both off your rocker.
Anyway,I have given my reasons,what I will say is this,I posted on Twitter to an number of followers that the 'Dirty Tricks' mob would be out in force over the next few months,any neutral looking in on this debate would clearly see how frightened you are,you are but won't admit it,aren't you.
A 5% swing ing the polls will have Better Together in a complete panic,you all thought at the outset that it would be a formality but now you all have squeaky bums,get used tae it chaps,our day will come,mark my words.

Got to laugh at your debating style - anyone who disagrees with your views or your approach in discussions is a member of the 'dirty tricks' brigade.

So we are 'frightened' because we think it would be more interesting if you took part in a reasoned discussion, rather than your usual diatribes, ad hominem attacks, and circular reasoning?

[Jimi]

Originally Posted by Pierre

sorry, I can't understand what you're saying.

No comprende Senor.

---------- Post added at 22:50 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Sirius

I cannot wait for the referendum, especially if its a NO.

I cannot wait for the referendum,especially when it will be YES.


---------- Post added at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------

Originally Posted by greeninferno

"Jimi" - you're not "Tommy" the "Taxi driver" are you?

The scourge of phone ins the length and breadth of Britain?

A thoroughly nice bloke is Tommy,catch his show anytime after midnight.

---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Got to laugh at your debating style - anyone who disagrees with your views or your approach in discussions is a member of the 'dirty tricks' brigade.

So we are 'frightened' because we think it would be more interesting if you took part in a reasoned discussion, rather than your usual diatribes, ad hominem attacks, and circular reasoning?

Calm down now Hugh,you are getting rather hot under the collar,I'm as entitled tae my views the same as everyone else on CF.
As for reasoned discussion,why is Cameron so scared of having a debate with Alex Salmond,eh,I'll tell you why,because Salmond would tie him in knots.
Nicola Sturgeon has already shown up the BT mob 3 times on TV,Cameron isn't daft,he knows he'd come off second best.

Back to the Ad Hominem attack, I see - 'hot under the collar'...

You are entitled to your views - however, when challenged on your views, you react negatively and with diatribes, rather than reasoned discussion.

Originally Posted by Jimi

Jeez,I had hardly typed out a reply tae Chris (cable forum mod) when two more mods jump in like a shot,are you both off your rocker.
Anyway,I have given my reasons,what I will say is this,I posted on Twitter to an number of followers that the 'Dirty Tricks' mob would be out in force over the next few months,any neutral looking in on this debate would clearly see how frightened you are,you are but won't admit it,aren't you.
A 5% swing ing the polls will have Better Together in a complete panic,you all thought at the outset that it would be a formality but now you all have squeaky bums,get used tae it chaps,our day will come,mark my words.

Personally I don't give a hoot about what happens, however you are the only person I have come across from Scotland who wants to break away, so I fully expect Scotland to carry on as it is today, So what are you going to do when you lose Jimi and realise you are in a minority?

Btw the use of tae rather than to makes it difficult to take you seriously.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Jimi

Jeez,I had hardly typed out a reply tae Chris (cable forum mod) when two more mods jump in like a shot,are you both off your rocker.
Anyway,I have given my reasons,what I will say is this,I posted on Twitter to an number of followers that the 'Dirty Tricks' mob would be out in force over the next few months,any neutral looking in on this debate would clearly see how frightened you are,you are but won't admit it,aren't you.
A 5% swing ing the polls will have Better Together in a complete panic,you all thought at the outset that it would be a formality but now you all have squeaky bums,get used tae it chaps,our day will come,mark my words.

Dirty tricks brigade??

Sorry but those were facts from businesses as reported on the news.

The only dirty tricks here are those being flung out by Salmond and the SNP.

---------- Post added at 08:55 ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Top banana

Personally I don't give a hoot about what happens, however you are the only person I have come across from Scotland who wants to break away, so I fully expect Scotland to carry on as it is today, So what are you going to do when you lose Jimi and realise you are in a minority?

Btw the use of tae rather than to makes it difficult to take you seriously.

He seems to think that one word makes him sound Scottish.

[Wad_2002]

Originally Posted by Chris

As referendum day looms, the facts are coming home to roost. We have a successful, well-integrated and efficient union. It may not be perfect, but it works, and it works well. The alternative will be a costly mess.

The only sane vote is 'NO'.

Meanwhile on planet Earth...

[Kabaal]

I'm honestly quite nervous about the vote. With all the nonsense surrounding it i think a lot of people aren't taking it seriously enough. If the vote ends up yes then Salmond and his cronies could well end up completely breaking everything. What happens then? Does he or his successor beg to be let back into the UK? I doubt they would take us back lol.

[Wad_2002]

Originally Posted by Kabaal

I'm honestly quite nervous about the vote. With all the nonsense surrounding it i think a lot of people aren't taking it seriously enough. If the vote ends up yes then Salmond and his cronies could well end up completely breaking everything. What happens then? Does he or his successor beg to be let back into the UK? I doubt they would take us back lol.

Kabaal, what are we breaking extactly?? other than removing ourselves from a union drawn up hundreds of years ago i.e. in bibilcal times.

We have all the ingredients necessary to move forward with this like, we did in the 70's when we DID vote for indenpendance, but again due to a "technicality" it was not fullfilled.

p.s. to answer your question, no I don't thknk we would be aloud back in. We made our bed and we have to sleep in that...I can accept that responsbility

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Wad_2002

Kabaal, what are we breaking extactly?? other than removing ourselves from a union drawn up hundreds of years ago i.e. in bibilcal times.

Biblical times were 2000 years ago.

Do you really think Scotland could sustain its own economy?

[Wad_2002]

Originally Posted by Russ

Biblical times were 2000 years ago.

Do you really think Scotland could sustain its own economy?

Sorry, I should have said we joined a union in a generation which is completly socially and techinically outdated compared to today's era and standards.

Yeah, I do believe this...I really cannot see why not.

Other than indivduals, orgainsations and companies, who have power and wealth to loose and may cost them hundreds of millions ££ of restructuring.

Do you think we live in a society focussed and fueled on personal gain?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Wad_2002

Yeah, I do believe this...I really cannot see why not.

Other than indivduals, orgainsations and companies, who have power and wealth to loose and may cost them hundreds of millions ££ of restructing.

Even though various business leaders and company chairmen have cast serious doubts? These people have no real reason to lie or mislead.

[Wad_2002]

Originally Posted by Russ

Even though various business leaders and company chairmen have cast serious doubts? These people have no real reason to lie or mislead.

Its a fair point of which I would find difficult to argue with you.

However, one of there sole responbilities as head of these companies its to protect profits and assests and maximise cashflow where possible which off would be at risk with independance.

Due to the current infructure of the world and way it works/turns over this now, I think its difficult even for anyone to say whats going to happen.

It makes things worse that we may not even keep the pound. Again I say why can we not?

Its more like kids in a sweet shop fighting over which they want rather than sharing and being equal. ( on the pound debate anyway)

Edit...one way of looking at possibly, is BP make more cash when UK is together, a split form the UK would reduce profits. I know if I owned a multimillion company that was at risk of losing money due to the vote, I would doing anything in the intrests of my company.

I thought the BoE Governor explained the pound situation quite well - how can the Scots have independent taxation and the same currency as the rest of the UK?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-25930075

Originally Posted by Wad_2002

Kabaal, what are we breaking extactly?? other than removing ourselves from a union drawn up hundreds of years ago i.e. in bibilcal times.

We have all the ingredients necessary to move forward with this like, we did in the 70's when we DID vote for indenpendance, but again due to a "technicality" it was not fullfilled.

p.s. to answer your question, no I don't thknk we would be aloud back in. We made our bed and we have to sleep in that...I can accept that responsbility

Erm no, Scotland did not vote for independence in the 1970s. There was a devolution referendum, which was defeated. The "technicality" was a quorum, which is a totally uncontroversial device in decisions involving constitutional change. IMO there should have been one in 1997 as well, although I believe Scotland would have met it. Wales certainly wouldn't and as a result the Assembly came into existence with the active support of fewer than 25% of Welsh voters.

I believe there should have been a quorum for this year's referendum as well. It can in no way be said to be the settled will of the Scottish people to effect permanent, radical constitutional change unless a majority of adults - all of them, not just the turnout - are sufficiently motivated to go out and vote for it.

Permanent and major constitutional changes should be demonstrated by more than 50% +1 of whichever voters turn out on the day. If the result is 49-51 for the union, the separatists will keep agitating forever and a day until they get what they want, arguing that opinions might have changed, but if it goes 51-49 the other way, the destruction of the modern British state will be permanent.

It's all very well you being happy with the consequences but our children have to live in the land we are at risk of birthing this year and we have a responsibility to them.

Cameron has been a pragmatist in allowing the seps to have their referendum, with votes for teens and no quorum, because he knew there was a risk that Salmond the ever-reckless would simply go ahead anyway and plan to try to fight for his result through the courts if necessary. But there is a real risk now, if the result is close, whichever way it falls, of long lasting social damage.

So you want independence and you want to keep the pound and that will no doubt be another thing where Scotland dictates and gets what it wants in the eye's of the SNP no doubt expecting to have some control over the pound as well. Personally if the majority of Scots want to go it alone then cya good luck and start your own things in all regards not this ridiculous picking and choosing the best bits that Alex Salmond believes everyone is just going to do. I'm not an economist but even I can see the snp's sums don't add up and his expectations are completely unrealistic regarding the political side as well.

If you do vote to leave and when it all goes terribly wrong you shouldn't be allowed back into the union unless we vote to allow Scotland back in your not just messing about with something small and you keep whatever debt you run up.