Brexit (Old)

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Mick

By biased Remainers. Who want to sabotage Brexit. The Scenarios they have presented are pure fiction, so they pass sweet FA!!!

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Nope, it is totally wrong to have another vote. We’ve already had a people’s vote, you just want another vote to overturn the first. When Leave wins again, will you selfishly insist we keep having a vote, so you can keep trying to get the result you want, best of 5 perhaps?

of course it be fact if it said we be better off wouldn't it and and look what happened to pound after vote or is that fiction too

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think the best answer on this comes from Margaret Thatcher

Erm-You should not be engaging in discussion with any team instruction.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think Professor Brian Cox has a good angle on this:
Quote:
Politics today is split into people who understand modelling and probability and the quantification of uncertainty and people who don’t.

I used to listen to Brian Cox when he played keyboards in the band 'Dare' . . . I don't listen to any of his other political sentiments though


. . anyway, in my opinion 'modelling and probability and the quantification of uncertainty' is just a fancy made up term for 'guesswork'

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What I do know is that when governments get out of the way and let businesses get on with it, they thrive, and that's good for our economy.

Businesses trading in the UK and Europe will get more bureaucracy post Brexit. If you're a lawyer or someone else doing the paperwork that's great but for everyone else that's increased costs. Businesses like common standards as that increases competition and reduce costs. Doing our own thing reduces this.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The PM has clarified that there will not be a second referendum and there will not be another General Election. She could not be any clearer and yet in your world, that's the only way forward.

Here, in the real world, we are looking at a vote in Parliament shortly that will result in the withdrawal agreement being abandoned, which will simply mean a 'no-deal' Brexit.

No constitutional crisis. Just a sizeable number of politicians scratching their heads and asking themselves what was so bad about the withdrawal agreement after all.

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Based on negative assumptions.

What the Prime Minister says, what she does and what she can actually deliver on are arguably three different things. She reintroduced the term “no Brexit at all”, that a number of times has been repeated by her Cabinet ministers.

So she can’t possibly be right that it simultaneously both is and isn’t an option. You are selecting an interpretation on the basis of the situation you want to arise, which is a reasonable stance, but that doesn’t make it a fact that it will happen that way.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

How these economic forecasters can take account of so many new opportunities and freedom from EU bureaucracy when they don't understand how these advantages will be taken up, I don't know.

Because you don't understand how something can be done, doesn't mean it can't be done.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Because you don't understand how something can be done, doesn't mean it can't be done.

And they still keep getting it wrong. Time after time after time. Plenty of evidence for that.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Nope, it is totally wrong to have another vote. We’ve already had a people’s vote, you just want another vote to overturn the first. When Leave wins again, will you selfishly insist we keep having a vote, so you can keep trying to get the result you want, best of 5 perhaps?

I’d be quite happy if leave won the People’s Vote. It’d remove all of the points around people being ill-informed, not understanding Brexit, etc.

After that there should be a General Election, with all the main parties respecting the result and making the case for their type of Brexit. Then we would hopefully have a strong Government in a strong position to negotiate as opposed to two main parties who can’t agree a unified line amongst themselves, never mind for the country as a whole at present.

Leaving the EU/interim arrangements should be in 4 years from then, towards the end of the Parliamentary term allowing a proper transition period for the economy.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’d be quite happy if leave won the People’s Vote. It’d remove all of the points around people being ill-informed, not understanding Brexit, etc.

After that there should be a General Election, with all the main parties respecting the result and making the case for their type of Brexit. Then we would hopefully have a strong Government in a strong position to negotiate as opposed to two main parties who can’t agree a unified line amongst themselves, never mind for the country as a whole at present.

Leaving the EU/interim arrangements should be in 4 years from then, towards the end of the Parliamentary term allowing a proper transition period for the economy.

You are so funny. So you want another referendum AND a General Election (both of which the PM has ruled out) then a four year delay, in the hope, no doubt, that remainers will find even more reasons to have another referendum when the second one didn't go their way either!

You crack me up, you really do!

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are so funny. So you want another referendum AND a General Election (both of which the PM has ruled out) then a four year delay, in the hope, no doubt, that remainers will find even more reasons to have another referendum when the second one didn't go their way either!

You crack me up, you really do!

The purpose isn’t to be entertaining, it’s to be practical. It’s a shame you can’t see it that way.

The last two years have been a waste of time because we have a weak Government and are ill prepared for Brexit. The present deal could leave us in interim arrangements longer than four years anyway. A clear model, be that Norway, Canada, no deal, with a Government elected on that basis would have been helpful.

The PM isn’t in a position to guarantee no further referendum or GE. Her word is only as good as her ability to command a majority in Parliament, which she can’t.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

The purpose isn’t to be entertaining, it’s to be practical. It’s a shame you can’t see it that way.

The last two years have been a waste of time because we have a weak Government and are ill prepared for Brexit. The present deal could leave us in interim arrangements longer than four years anyway. A clear model, be that Norway, Canada, no deal, with a Government elected on that basis would have been helpful.

The PM isn’t in a position to guarantee no further referendum or GE. Her word is only as good as her ability to command a majority in Parliament, which she can’t.

It's just another excuse to try to avoid implementing what the electorate voted for. It's not going to happen.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’d be quite happy if leave won the People’s Vote. It’d remove all of the points around people being ill-informed, not understanding Brexit, etc.

After that there should be a General Election, with all the main parties respecting the result and making the case for their type of Brexit. Then we would hopefully have a strong Government in a strong position to negotiate as opposed to two main parties who can’t agree a unified line amongst themselves, never mind for the country as a whole at present.

Leaving the EU/interim arrangements should be in 4 years from then, towards the end of the Parliamentary term allowing a proper transition period for the economy.

They did in 2016
enjoy the happiness that knowledge brings.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It's just another excuse to try to avoid implementing what the electorate voted for. It's not going to happen.

No, it’s about electing a Government that can deliver Brexit.

I agree it won’t happen, because remain will win the future referendum, but Mick did ask the question how I’d feel if Leave won a future referendum and I outlined steps to deliver a safe and secure exit of the EU as he is entitled to my reply.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf

They did in 2016
enjoy the happiness that knowledge brings.

It’s quite clear from the question I was asked this was in the context of a 2nd referendum. There was no real need to derail the conversation.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

And they still keep getting it wrong. Time after time after time. Plenty of evidence for that.

Recent examples to support this line and a definition of "they" will assist further discussion.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

What the Prime Minister says, what she does and what she can actually deliver on are arguably three different things. She reintroduced the term “no Brexit at all”, that a number of times has been repeated by her Cabinet ministers.

So she can’t possibly be right that it simultaneously both is and isn’t an option. You are selecting an interpretation on the basis of the situation you want to arise, which is a reasonable stance, but that doesn’t make it a fact that it will happen that way.

Quantum Brexit.