[Merged] Football talk - Page 224

Reddevil63 · 09-05-2005, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

Digging up ancient history won't help you now. The 90s are as passe as Geri Halliwell and Noel Gallagher. You're beginning to sound like all those bitter Liverpool fans we've seen crouched in the corner of pubs for the last fifteen years banging on about Ian Rush, Kenny Dalglish and winning European Cups in the 70s and 80s.

8 in 12 is great, but two years ago it was 8 in 10. Recent history is not on United's side, and digging up the past runs the risk of highlighting exactly how far standards have slipped.

At least we won back to back titles and three titles in a row...something the Arse haven't even come close to completing!

09-05-2005, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reddevil63

At least we won back to back titles and three titles in a row...something the Arse haven't even come close to completing!

I have a feeling Chelsea might though

__________________

But lets see how we get on tomorrow night
10 May 2005
Barclays Premiership
Man Utd v Chelsea, 20:00

sir_drinks_alot · 09-05-2005, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman

I have a feeling Chelsea might though

__________________

But lets see how we get on tomorrow night
10 May 2005
Barclays Premiership
Man Utd v Chelsea, 20:00

Same yesman it's going to take a hell of a lot for other team to take the title
Off tham

BBKing · 10-05-2005, 08:16

Quote:

At least we won back to back titles and three titles in a row...something the Arse haven't even come close to completing!

Ahem. Not quite. Just because you think football started with Sky TV doesn't mean we all do. Arsenal won the league in 1931, 1933, 1934, 1935 and 1938. That includes three in a row.

sherer · 10-05-2005, 09:51

haven't huddersfield done that as well.. i think

the nited squad we have now isn't as good as 99.. Ronaldo may be able to do loads of tricks but his basic delivery and end product isn't as good as Beckham's.. the midfield are now too old and can't perform over a full season.. the subs beanch and rest of squad also isn't as good would rather play the 99 team than what we have now i'm afraid.. sure one or 2 of the current squad,, Ruud Rooney are better than 99 but overall we are a poorer side.. also no one fears playing us any more thay all raise their game and beat us unlike before when we beat teams just by turning up

orangebird · 10-05-2005, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

Ahem. Not quite. Just because you think football started with Sky TV doesn't mean we all do. Arsenal won the league in 1931, 1933, 1934, 1935 and 1938. That includes three in a row.

I thought (to quote you) ' Digging up ancient history won't help you'?

TigaSefi · 10-05-2005, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangebird

I thought (to quote you) ' Digging up ancient history won't help you'?

pWn3D!!one!one!!!!one!!!!!

orangebird · 10-05-2005, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigaSefi

pWn3D!!one!one!!!!one!!!!!

BBKing · 10-05-2005, 10:31

Quote:

Digging up ancient history won't help you'

The key bit, of course, is 'won't help you'. That was aimed at Marge, who was trying to argue that because United were great six years ago they're great now. There's nothing wrong with digging up ancient history per se, it was merely the use of it that I was pointing out wouldn't help the argument, in this particular instance.

On the other hand, I brought up Arsenal's 1930s record to correct Reddevil who thinks that Arsenal have never won three titles in a row. Since it's fairly undeniable that they did win three titles in a row, it's legitimate to refute that opinion.

Given that none of the 1930s Arsenal side are currently playing, and it was a completely different era, it would be rather odd of me to suggest that purely because Arsenal were great in the 1930s, they're great now (they're great for other reasons, of course). Likewise it's odd for a United fan to suggest that because they won 8 titles in 10 years and had a great team between 1993 and 2000 that proves they have a great team now. That's like saying that because Chelsea hadn't won the league since 1955 they were incapable of doing so.

Club history doesn't affect performance on the pitch, but the facts are there in the books, and there's no excuse to be ignorant of them, or think of them as a substitute for the currently slipping standards up in Manchester.

Russ · 10-05-2005, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

Club history doesn't affect performance on the pitch, but the facts are there in the books, and there's no excuse to be ignorant of them, or think of them as a substitute for the currently slipping standards up in Manchester.

You wish! Didn't Arse start off this season with some kind of unbeaten record? (ie We are unbeatable, we are unbeatable etc etc) Then United soundly beat them and Arse's season slowly went in decline (ie around about the time you stopped contributing to this thread). They had a resurgence and now find themselves second. Form comes in bits and pieces, United has been up and down all season just like the Arse's.

Slipping standards? When United drop out of the top 5 THEN you may have something vaguely resembling a point.

nffc · 10-05-2005, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

Club history doesn't affect performance on the pitch, but the facts are there in the books, and there's no excuse to be ignorant of them, or think of them as a substitute for the currently slipping standards up in Manchester.

You wish! Didn't Arse start off this season with some kind of unbeaten record? (ie We are unbeatable, we are unbeatable etc etc) Then United soundly beat them and Arse's season slowly went in decline (ie around about the time you stopped contributing to this thread). They had a resurgence and now find themselves second. Form comes in bits and pieces, United has been up and down all season just like the Arse's.

Slipping standards? When United drop out of the top 5 THEN you may have something vaguely resembling a point.

That happens though. In the days when we were good enough to finish 3rd in the Premiership (94-95) and reach the quarter-finals of the UEFA Cup (95-96; Man U lost to Rotor Volgograd on away goals in the first round that year)- a finish which would be champions league now

we actually managed to set a then-record of 25 PL games unbeaten

we lost our next game 7-0 at Ewood Park, they beat us 5-1 at the City Ground and we lost 5-0 at Old Trafford at the end of the season (the equivalent fixture the previous season being a 2-1 Forest win; which was their only home reversal for two years).

Point being, normally going on a long unbeaten run seems to get a lot of games you should be losing but you normally draw- and when the luck runs out you do tend to lose a few. That's what's happened to Arsenal, whilst they had the momentum things worked for them but when they didn't have the unbeaten run the luck they were previously getting wasn't quite so forthcoming... I'm not sure about this but I think both Arsenal and Man U have had injury problems for much of the season as well- it's not an excuse but it's a mitigating factor if you can't play your best player for a while!

From a neutral's perspective, as for slipping standards I believe BBking has a point.
92-93 W
93-94 W + FAC
94-95 2nd
95-96 W + FAC
96-97 W
97-98 2nd
98-99 W + FAC + EC
99-00 W + FAC
00-01 W
01-02 3rd
02-03 W
03-04 3rd + FAC
04-05 looks to be 3rd and a chance of the FAC
Three third placed finishes in four years when the previous nine had yielded seven titles and two runners-up finishes.
Maybe not a drastic fall but looking at Chelsea's young side, endless pit of money and investment in the Academy it may be a sign of things to come. Especially as Arsenal will continue to be there or thereabouts whilst Wenger remains at the helm... and Benitez looks like making moves towards success at Anfield.
Will be interesting if nothing else.

sherer · 10-05-2005, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

From a neutral's perspective, as for slipping standards I believe BBking has a point.
92-93 W
93-94 W + FAC
94-95 2nd
95-96 W + FAC
96-97 W
97-98 2nd
98-99 W + FAC + EC
99-00 W + FAC
00-01 W
01-02 3rd
02-03 W
03-04 3rd + FAC
04-05 looks to be 3rd and a chance of the FAC

we didn't win the cup in 00.. we have never retained the trophy..

i'd have to say standards have slipped.. i was at the Blackburn game this season we it was the worst performance we have ever put in.. and then we followed that up with more dire rubbish.. the 99 Fergie would never have allowed a performance like that.. the team wouldn't have performed like that or they would be sold,, Stam for instance,, and we have a better squad.. finishing 3rd twice in a row isn't good enough and if the other teams had been any better then we would prob finish even lower.. apart from G. Neville, Keono and Heinze no one else has put in any effort this season and that includes Fergie

i can't see it getting any better next season either unless we spend big on the midfield over the summer

Russ · 10-05-2005, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Maybe not a drastic fall but looking at Chelsea's young side, endless pit of money and investment in the Academy it may be a sign of things to come. Especially as Arsenal will continue to be there or thereabouts whilst Wenger remains at the helm... and Benitez looks like making moves towards success at Anfield.

Not sure if you meant to do so but you've just backed up my point. Chelsea have an almost unlimited supply of money (and I don't for one moment believe Kenyon when he said the spending stops now) and their team is the best at the momentas will the Chelsea of tomorrow, considering their academy. Arsenal have raised their game and I still think Henry is one of the top 3 strikers in the UK if not europe. So they have improved as have Liverpool, Everton and others. The only top team to not make such advances is United.

So no, our standards have not slipped. Other teams have improved.

Marge · 10-05-2005, 18:30

Note to Nemesis, don't forget our small wager about tonights match

Reddevil63 · 10-05-2005, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

Ahem. Not quite. Just because you think football started with Sky TV doesn't mean we all do. Arsenal won the league in 1931, 1933, 1934, 1935 and 1938. That includes three in a row.

Stand corrected but my comment was aimed at the Premiership years.

Also add to the matter that in those years a fair few FA Cups were also won and a European Cup.