Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[popper]

Originally Posted by LadyMinion

Found another article published today regarding how long companies should retain our data:

http://www.adotas.com/2008/04/phorm-...consumer-info/

its interesting that they sign up filing Friday with the US based FTC an independent agency of the United States government to get in the limilight alongside MS.

and MS are signing because of the EU directive under consideration, Brussels, 09 April 2008 ARTICLE 29 DATA PROTECTION WORKING PARTY

they know full well , their stance there is good for their business model, after all that only leaves NebuAd to contend with, or more likely collaberate with, as i suspect they will eventually.

[Pasanonic]

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe

Please do - though note that Cable Forum messages have a character limit so we will need the RIPA notice shortened if we include the url as well.

Does anyone have an opinion about changing the front page of inphormationdesk to a variant of
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/legislators.htm
and moving the current front page into the site as a Q&A section?

Consider using www.tinyurl.com to condense a URL that might use too many characters for a signature.

[serial]

I'm wondering wether it really is Emma Sanderson replying, I've also been asking a few questions and getting immediate replies. At my company we're often asked to look at saving our directors maybe 15/30 minutes a day as their time is precious. It would make sense that Emma has a PA fielding questions with standard cut and paste answers. I can't imagine a director spending their time communicating with the mob.

[Winston Smith]

Craig,

i am not saying he is responsible in any way, shape or form (the thought couldnt be further from my mind), and I have no intention of being rude to him, and kind of hope my letter wasnt. But, he has allowed what was NTL to use the Virgin brand. And surely as the ultimate arbiter of what that brand is worth and what it can be used for he must realise the potential damage to the brand value of allowing this to continue.

I only address the letter to Sir Richard as he holds a 14% stake in this combined group (figures from a Google search. so if wrong please correct). I remember him talking about the unfair competition of BA (shades of Mr Laker, I feel), and would hope that the value of the Vigin brand is such that he would perhaps use his influence to affect the future course of the company.

Regards

WinstonS

[Bonglet]

Yep really funny that post where the guy is going to give a talk of how they broke the law by using Bt,talk talk and virgin media without anyone knowing (wonder who was affected in the virgin media camp was it me with the ultra ballistic latency i was having for months and numerous reformats ).

Also interesting to note that they keep refering to Mr Davies role in privacy international in replys as mr davies has been said to quote that any company who he has a contract or dealings with that quote his role in PI he will cease that very contract instantly (i can find his exact quote if needed) phorm have also used this quote in the past yet hes still working for them .

If this whole episode was software based i.e the isp involved gave you a disk which installed the said ad serving software if YOU wanted it fine i'd have no problem letting it gather dust on some shelf, but the thing comes to a head when spyware companies put hardware in place to do it, that should have been the only Opt in covered and legal not something which is a data mining set top box engineered as the first stop on the bus route to spyville.

[mark777]

Originally Posted by serial

Hi Guys, over on badphorm we've spotted this which you might find interesting:

http://www.how-do.co.uk/north-west-m...-200804142351/

"Hugo Drayton, the CEO of digital advertising company Phorm, Phorm has initially populated the OIX with data gathered from BT, Virgin and Carphone Warehouse on users’ internet browsing habits."

Hugo Drayton is turning up here as well (near the bottom of the page, day 2).

http://www.epublishing-forum.com/epu...programme.html

7/8th May, London

Brings some money in I suppose.

Presumably, these meeting strands are about drawing in potential advertisers. If that's the case, are they likely to get indiscreet about their abilities?

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by Bonglet

Also interesting to note that they keep refering to Mr Davies role in privacy international in replys as mr davies has been said to quote that any company who he has a contract or dealings with that quote his role in PI he will cease that very contract instantly (i can find his exact quote if needed) phorm have also used this quote in the past yet hes still working for them .

I am not sure where you got that info from, I have never seen Simon Davies say that. He has said if a client is involved in illegal activity 80/20 T will sever the relationship.

Alexander Hanff

[Pasanonic]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

Craig,

i am not saying he is responsible in any way, shape or form (the thought couldnt be further from my mind), and I have no intention of being rude to him, and kind of hope my letter wasnt. But, he has allowed what was NTL to use the Virgin brand. And surely as the ultimate arbiter of what that brand is worth and what it can be used for he must realise the potential damage to the brand value of allowing this to continue.

I only address the letter to Sir Richard as he holds a 14% stake in this combined group (figures from a Google search. so if wrong please correct). I remember him talking about the unfair competition of BA (shades of Mr Laker, I feel), and would hope that the value of the Vigin brand is such that he would perhaps use his influence to affect the future course of the company.

Regards

WinstonS

Yes Winston I totally agree with your position.
I did not actually mean to suggest that you personally were responsible for the things I mentioned. The simple fact is I am new to the posting process here but have been reading for some considerable time and had meant to bring this issue up since reading some attacks on Sir Richard early in the thread and your thread simply reminded, and prompted me to comment.


Also please don't think that as I have a small and insignificant connection with him that I in any way would condone him should he remain silent or worse, speak in favour of the Phorm company and the harm to the Virgin brand. Hopefully I can only help bring it to his attention in the same manner as you.

As I said, it's very easy for the company we have issues with to be confused with the Virgin group not least because of the name and I just thought it was time again to be sure that it was brought up.

No disrespect was meant regarding your post. I'm not that obtuse. I have a habit of being very concise and accusatory when I feel the need

Craig.

[amateria]

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe

Please do - though note that Cable Forum messages have a character limit so we will need the RIPA notice shortened if we include the url as well.

Does anyone have an opinion about changing the front page of inphormationdesk to a variant of
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/legislators.htm
and moving the current front page into the site as a Q&A section?

Yes, I'll have to try to make the RIPA notice shorter to fit it in.

Good idea about changing the front page to the "legislators" page.

I'm thinking about drafting some more template letters, such as DPA subject access requests to send to iSPs - after all, every interception also entails processing of (probably) personal information and (perhaps) sensitive personal information. Maybe also a full set of RIPA notices for members of the public, commercial websites and individuals: letters to registered offices/company secretaries, commercial websites, individual websites, email footers, forum posting signatures. Do you think they would be useful -

Another thought - could the site carry a specific explanation of the term "Webwise", so that BT test subjects can get the right answers when they do a Google search to find out what it is.

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by amateria

Yes, I'll have to try to make the RIPA notice shorter to fit it in.

Good idea about changing the front page to the "legislators" page.

I'm thinking about drafting some more template letters, such as DPA subject access requests to send to iSPs - after all, every interception also entails processing of (probably) personal information and (perhaps) sensitive personal information. Maybe also a full set of RIPA notices for members of the public, commercial websites and individuals: letters to registered offices/company secretaries, commercial websites, individual websites, email footers, forum posting signatures. Do you think they would be useful -

Another thought - could the site carry a specific explanation of the term "Webwise", so that BT test subjects can get the right answers when they do a Google search to find out what it is.

If you want a site to be pulled in by search engines, have a look at Meta Tags...

[Bonglet]

Its here under 80/20's ethics and principles of engagment alexander

http://www.8020thinking.com/ethics.html

This applies equally to misrepresentation of the view of organizations to which 80/20 employees are affiliated.

We will disengage from any relationship where the client appears to be manipulating our involvement or our advice for ulterior motives.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by eastbourne

This is my first posting.
1 If my internet usage is to be spied on and information given randomly (this is my gist of the situation) whats to stop phorm from accessing any of my banking or personal details used on line for purchasing etc?
Eastbourne

Your payments and bank info will be covered by HTTPS, its encrypted and should be hidden from Phorm.
Other ecommerce details such as shopping basket/order summary/delivery address may or may not be encrypted.

Originally Posted by eastbourne

2 I have heard the the US may pull the plug on UK internet providers using Phorm. Will I still be able to access my MSN boards, many of which I use for my hobbies or for health support?

Probably. Some webmasters in this country are none too happy about their content being parasitically scammed by Phorm. See www.dephormation.org.uk for sample code which will allow web masters to detect Phorm.

Originally Posted by eastbourne

3 Does anybody have a list of broadband providers who will definately not be using phorm?

www.antiphormleague.com or look at BadPhorm

Originally Posted by eastbourne

I may need to get rid of Virgin quite soon

Phorm, STM, price increases, I'm suprised you haven't moved already.

[amateria]

Originally Posted by eastbourne

This is my first posting.
I am not totally clear of all the issues here, however, I would like somebody to answer the following questions if they can please.

1 If my internet usage is to be spied on and information given randomly (this is my gist of the situation) whats to stop phorm from accessing any of my banking or personal details used on line for purchasing etc?

2 I have heard the the US may pull the plug on UK internet providers using Phorm. Will I still be able to access my MSN boards, many of which I use for my hobbies or for health support?
3 Does anybody have a list of broadband providers who will definately not be using phorm?

I may need to get rid of Virgin quite soon

Eastbourne

Welcome to the forum, Eastbourne. As I understand it, banking and credit card details almost always use encryption (although a lot of forms for other purposes do not) and we are told this is foolproof. But the Phorm programmers are former members of Russia's Lebedev Institute which is a world-leader expert in cryptography. And who would be in a better position than Phorm's programmers, and VM's staff, to get into our encrypted data?

---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Bonglet

Its here under 80/20's ethics and principles of engagment alexander

http://www.8020thinking.com/ethics.html

This applies equally to misrepresentation of the view of organizations to which 80/20 employees are affiliated.

We will disengage from any relationship where the client appears to be manipulating our involvement or our advice for ulterior motives.

I suppose BT isn't their client, so BT's appropriation of PI's reputation to serve its own PR ends doesn't appear to be one of these cases. Unless, of course, Phorm wrote or prompted the BT press release - in which case that would be manipulation by 80/20's client for ulterior motives.

Tellingly:

"From April 2008, we will do our best to ensure that all our client contracts will contain the following provisions:

Any instance of deception or dishonesty by an 80/20 client during the course of our work will result in the termination of that relationship.
We will disengage from any relationship where the client appears to be manipulating our involvement or our advice for ulterior motives. ..."

Why "from April 2008"? And why will they only "do their best"? If clients won't accept a term as basic as this, just say "No". That's what having business ethics means.

[Winston Smith]

So then, tomorrows meeting in London. is it likely to be an ambush? And if so what is best way avoid being seen as a 'Phorm-puppet'. don't know if it is just me, but I can't see why Kent et al. al are willing to submit themselves to a public meetinng without having their backs covered. Maybe I am too suspicious but...

Moreso based on this meeting in Manchester where they seem to be ready to discuss the serious side of things; the money. And the fact that they have our data already.

Are those of us going to the London meeting tomorrow being co-opted into a Phorm PR stunt?

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

So then, tomorrows meeting in London. is it likely to be an ambush? And if so what is best way avoid being seen as a 'Phorm-puppet'. don't know if it is just me, but I can't see why Kent et al. al are willing to submit themselves to a public meetinng without having their backs covered. Maybe I am too suspicious but...

Moreso based on this meeting in Manchester where they seem to be ready to discuss the serious side of things; the money. And the fact that they have our data already.

Are those of us going to the London meeting tomorrow being co-opted into a Phorm PR stunt?

The penny drops..