[Merged] Where is HD from NTL? When?
23-05-2006, 11:24
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#316
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Inactive
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
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Originally Posted by nn012
This bit has been added today to the interview:
So that's confirmation from the horse's mouth that ntl: will indeed be introducing the TW TVDrive box and not the original MPEG-4 Explorer 8450 PVR announced before the merger.
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heres the 8450 datasheet
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/cus...ce/7009100.pdf
does anyone have the direct link to the TVdrive to compare the spec?.
do the TW users get the full spec(whatever that is), or a sub-set and if so what is that?.
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23-05-2006, 12:20
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#318
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Inactive
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
[quote]All together now....
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"We're sorry Neil, you were right about ntl's HD 'service' & we were wrong.
You said it wouldn't be this year & you were right.
You also said it would be MPEG 2 & you were right"
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I really don't want to say "I told you so" but........
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I told you so!  
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ROTFL
i wonder if we can get more coverege on this mess and perhaps
have old Mark Horley from ntl re-consider his and his teams choice.....
---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------
MPEG-2 TVdrive
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Originally Posted by nn012
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MPEG-2/4/AVC Explorer 8450
rather than point out the obvious, ill mention this :
OMG, thats just so bad, i dont have time right now, but the first thing that jumps out is the 10baseT port rather than a real 10/100 (cant say moden, as even thats old) or even a far better for long term viability 10/100/1000 (a £12 retail card).
the 10baseT wont ever get near to the 10meg downloads they are about to switch to , so that rules out even faster speeds for the likes of future interactive content, or STB bound/embeded gaming.
the sound options on that TVdrive are so out there for todays commercial content, so it implys they will need to also mess about with the sound headend options in a few years( if not weeks OMG).
the fact that the tvdrive needs 2 slow 250mhz MIPS chips to do the business (you get better/faster MIPS CPU's on cheap wireless kit today) isnt very promising eather......
for the non-tech readers, the tvdrive is using obsolete/old tech thats being marketed as new NTL HD inovation and should have been bin'ed years ago for cheaper/better/more advanced tech hardware thats off the shelf and in full stock everywere today and the future too, not to mention (its using that liberate middleware shhh..... (the industry LOL's) )...... the BBC/itv/c4/c5 trials are using the real advanced/inovating HD MPEG-4/AVC video format just like the EU french.germans and others rather than the old US HD MPEG-2 video formats, so the TVDrive wont cut it/cant play it direct, and NTL will need to mess with the content and perhaps loose quality on the original content.
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23-05-2006, 14:01
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#319
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Inactive
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: York,
Age: 54
Posts: 162
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Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
[quote=popper]
Quote:
All together now....
ROTFL
i wonder if we can get more coverege on this mess and perhaps
have old Mark Horley from ntl re-consider his and his teams choice.....
---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------
MPEG-2 TVdrive
MPEG-2/4/AVC Explorer 8450
rather than point out the obvious, ill mention this :
OMG, thats just so bad, i dont have time right now, but the first thing that jumps out is the 10baseT port rather than a real 10/100 (cant say moden, as even thats old) or even a far better for long term viability 10/100/1000 (a £12 retail card).
the 10baseT wont ever get near to the 10meg downloads they are about to switch to , so that rules out even faster speeds for the likes of future interactive content, or STB bound/embeded gaming.
the sound options on that TVdrive are so out there for todays commercial content, so it implys they will need to also mess about with the sound headend options in a few years( if not weeks OMG).
the fact that the tvdrive needs 2 slow 250mhz MIPS chips to do the business (you get better/faster MIPS CPU's on cheap wireless kit today) isnt very promising eather......
for the non-tech readers, the tvdrive is using obsolete/old tech thats being marketed as new NTL HD inovation and should have been bin'ed years ago for cheaper/better/more advanced tech hardware thats off the shelf and in full stock everywere today and the future too, not to mention (its using that liberate middleware shhh..... (the industry LOL's) )...... the BBC/itv/c4/c5 trials are using the real advanced/inovating HD MPEG-4/AVC video format just like the EU french.germans and others rather than the old US HD MPEG-2 video formats, so the TVDrive wont cut it/cant play it direct, and NTL will need to mess with the content and perhaps loose quality on the original content.[/
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Reading those two data sheets through as a layman, there's just no contest as to which is the better, futureproof option to be using - and it isn't the one that this person has chosen.
Yes it should have been binned long ago, and so we also have to wonder what'll happen eventually when the MPEG2 broadcasts stop and become MPEG4 only - as the BBC trial is likely to confirm as the best broadcast option? Can you really see the broadcasters going back to MPEG2 broadcasts just for ntl when full services launch in the next few years? Unlikely I'd have thought, as MPEG4 uses less bandwidth.
So given that scenario, are we likely to see another bout of replacing TVD mk.1 (crummy TW rubbish) with the Mk.2 MPEG4 version in two to four years time perhaps to try and keep up with Sky/BBC who will have moved further on in product development by then?
The Liberate software is so slow and resource hungry in the STB's - the content has by definition to be basic so it doesn't crash the processors. It also means we are unlikely to see much more than the BBC ever providing us with "red button" content as the providers have to recode from the Open TV software used on Sky to our version so it becomes expensive to do and time consuming. And thats without Sky playing silly devils and witholding their E-TV applications for Sky only, despite the press release from ntl: at the time of launching Sky Sports Extra which made the "claim" that a version of Sky's red button stuff was being worked on for ntl customers. More rubbish.
As to HD content, if Hoarley and his "team" stick with this obsolete box to rollout, then all MPEG4 feeds will have to be downscaled at the headends back to MPEG2 so that the binbox can cope with them - which probably means that we'll lose some picture quality. And as for HD channels - well they don't seem to have access to Sky's HD channels anytime soon either. The TW areas aren't reporting seeing them or even a date for them launching on their side from ntl. My guess is that as with Sky Active, they'll be kept exclusive to Sky Digital until a majority of their customers have transistioned from digital SD to digital HD services, then they'll be offered to ntl: at a overinflated price for carrying them.
Realistically, we're only likely to see the BBC/ITV HD offerings in the short to medium term as they tend to be platform neutral on distribution. Whats even more annoying is that even Freeview are waking up to the value of having a branded version of a PVR called "Freeview Playback" this September, which although it won't be HD capable, will leave only ntl looking stupid with no provision.
If anyone higher up than the PVR team at ntl had any courage they'd be looking for heads to roll over this mess, and for the difficulties TW subs are encountering with the 8300, not to mention actually pushing them to get the PVR out now - not in a years time after the train has well and truly left the station and Sky are unable to be caught.
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23-05-2006, 14:18
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#320
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,058
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Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
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Originally Posted by McYorkie
If anyone higher up than the PVR team at ntl had any courage they'd be looking for heads to roll over this mess, and for the difficulties TW subs are encountering with the 8300, not to mention actually pushing them to get the PVR out now - not in a years time after the train has well and truly left the station and Sky are unable to be caught.
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Sky are already unable to be caught.
As I've said before-ntl, where others lead-they follow.
The TW bods mays just be beginning to realise what a bad thing ntl taking them over really is.....
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23-05-2006, 15:08
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#321
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Inactive
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,403
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Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
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Originally Posted by Neil
Sky are already unable to be caught.
As I've said before-ntl, where others lead-they follow.
The TW bods mays just be beginning to realise what a bad thing ntl taking them over really is.....
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Hehe, the monkey trying to put the cork back into the elephants bum comes to mind 
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23-05-2006, 21:52
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#322
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Media Watcher
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Essex
Services: Sky, Cable & Freeview
Posts: 2,409
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Throwing a spanner in the works here...
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Originally Posted by nn012
This bit has been added today to the interview:
So that's confirmation from the horse's mouth that ntl: will indeed be introducing the TW TVDrive box and not the original MPEG-4 Explorer 8450 PVR announced before the merger.
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Err, no it's not.
The ntl/telewest person said they will be launching the TV Drive next year. He made no mention of specs. You can, as all of you have done over the last few days/weeks assume that the MPEG4 boxes are dead, or you can wait and see what happens. Although, it will be a wait....
A couple of things:
TV Drive is a brand, not a spec. When the ntl person said ntl are launching the TV Drive to ntl areas next year. That does NOT mean it will necessarily mean the Telewest TV Drive...
The ntl person also said "There is a huge amount of work to be done to make sure that this box and the code that resides on it can interface with all the NTL back-end systems." This could just as easily apply to a new MPEG 4 box with the possibility of new middle ware, just as much as could to the current mpeg 2 Telewest box.
Finally, and as said before here, Scientific-Atlanta announced last September that ntl had "selected" their MPEG 4 box. But, SA made no mention of numbers ordered or whether there was a contract signed. If there was a contract signed, then it's MPEG 4 boxes for ntl...Interestly, ntl made no mention of this on their web site.. If a contract was signed then, some boxes should be ready by now.
I still live in hope that ntl might, might, be able to provide a decently specked PVR for customers and HD some time this century.
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23-05-2006, 21:58
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#323
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-
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Somewhere
Services: Virgin for TV and Internet, BT for phone
Posts: 26,546
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Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
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Originally Posted by Neil
Sky are already unable to be caught.
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Having a huge multi billion dollar corporation that is willing to sink billions into you helps.
Having said that, HDTV has been around in some form for years, and likely to take off for at least 3 years. When you consider that NTL has had a mass replacement of boxes once in that time, and specified several new boxes, you may wonder why at least of those isn't capable of Hi Def..
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23-05-2006, 22:20
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#324
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,058
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Re: Throwing a spanner in the works here...
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Originally Posted by Neptune
Err, no it's not.
The ntl/telewest person said they will be launching the TV Drive next year. He made no mention of specs. You can, as all of you have done over the last few days/weeks assume that the MPEG4 boxes are dead, or you can wait and see what happens. Although, it will be a wait....
A couple of things:
TV Drive is a brand, not a spec. When the ntl person said ntl are launching the TV Drive to ntl areas next year. That does NOT mean it will necessarily mean the Telewest TV Drive...
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I think you should read that again...
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Originally Posted by ntl person
The ntl person also said "There is a huge amount of work to be done to make sure that this box and the code that resides on it can interface with all the NTL back-end systems."
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There's absolutely no doubt that he is referring to TW's existing MPEG 2 box.
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Originally Posted by Neptune
This could just as easily apply to a new MPEG 4 box with the possibility of new middle ware, just as much as could to the current mpeg 2 Telewest box.
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Not when he is referring to the existing box.
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Originally Posted by Neptune
Finally, and as said before here, Scientific-Atlanta announced last September that ntl had "selected" their MPEG 4 box. But, SA made no mention of numbers ordered or whether there was a contract signed. If there was a contract signed, then it's MPEG 4 boxes for ntl...Interestly, ntl made no mention of this on their web site.. If a contract was signed then, some boxes should be ready by now.
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No doubt they are "coming soon"....
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Originally Posted by Neptune
I still live in hope that ntl might, might, be able to provide a decently specked PVR for customers and HD some time this century.
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Don't hold your breath.
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23-05-2006, 22:29
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#325
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Media Watcher
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Essex
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Posts: 2,409
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Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
Where does the ntl chap say he's referring to the existing Telewest box? And what exactly do I need to read again?
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24-05-2006, 16:07
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#327
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Inactive
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[Merged] Where is HD from NTL? When?
No HD for ntl but telewest customers get bbc HD channel from today, Come on NTL, NTL could have made a few £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒââ‚ ¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒâ€š £ÂÃâ €šÃ‚£ and taken some customer from sky if they got there hd receiver out there months ago, What a joke, So when the world cup starts all the telewest TVD customers can watch the world cup In hd ( If they have a high def tv that is)
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24-05-2006, 16:17
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#328
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Inactive
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 58
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Re: No HD for ntl but telewest customers get bbc HD channel from today
You make it sound as if its done by the switch of a button.. I dont think it is. Not many people have HD TV's yet, and not all of these bother about getting HD signal, so I can see why its not a high priority, yet. Couple of year, yes.
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24-05-2006, 16:23
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#329
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Trollsplatter
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Re: [Merged] Where is HD from NTL? When?
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Originally Posted by mob227
No HD for ntl but telewest customers get bbc HD channel from today, Come on NTL, NTL could have made a few £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒââ‚ ¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒâ€š £ÂÃâ €šÃ‚£ and taken some customer from sky if they got there hd receiver out there months ago, What a joke, So when the world cup starts all the telewest TVD customers can watch the world cup In hd ( If they have a high def tv that is)
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Merged into the existing HD thread.
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24-05-2006, 17:03
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#330
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Inactive
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Re: Throwing a spanner in the works here...
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Originally Posted by Neptune
Finally, and as said before here, Scientific-Atlanta announced last September that ntl had "selected" their MPEG 4 box. But, SA made no mention of numbers ordered or whether there was a contract signed. If there was a contract signed, then it's MPEG 4 boxes for ntl...Interestly, ntl made no mention of this on their web site.. If a contract was signed then, some boxes should be ready by now.
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It is worth noting that for financial reasons, Telewest actually took-over ntl. Therefore, any contract signed with ntl beforehand may now be null-and-void.
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