BNP loses seats

[Nor]

help reduce illegal labour
reduce identity fraud
dissuade assylum seekers targetting the UK
make it harder to use fake identification

off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by Nor

help reduce illegal labour
reduce identity fraud
dissuade assylum seekers targetting the UK
make it harder to use fake identification

off the top of my head.

OK, so for each of these we need to decide whether ID cards might be effective, whether there might be a more effective alternative (bearing in mind, for example, the huge cost of introducing an ID card scheme), and whether the disruption caused (loss of liberty to the population, administration of the scheme, cost of the scheme) is in proportion to the problem.

In the context of asylum seekers, illegal labour and ID fraud/fake ID are all related issues. That suggests to me that, if you tackle the root of the problem - i.e. it is too easy for illegal immigrants to get into the UK in the first place, and to 'disappear' even when they are caught/claim asylum - then the subsequent problems will also be reduced.

So, how do we deal with the asylum problem? Some ideas:

1. For a start, we hang on like mad to our opt-out from the common Euro-border Schengen Treaty. The fact that we can retain our own border controls is an essential tool.
2. We reinstate the deal struck between the UK and France that allows us to just ship anyone arriving from France back across the Channel. France is a safe country and no-one who has reached there has any business trying to move on here. Labour, in an act of complete lunacy, tore up this deal and the problem has ballooned ever since. Of course, if France finds it has a large number of processed, genuine asylum seekers on its hands, I believe we should do our international duty by accepting some of them to come here.
3. Any and every asylum seeker/possible illegal immigrant arriving here and not immediately returnable to France should be housed in a secure unit while their application is processed. At this point I believe this trespass on their own 'liberties' is justified. If they have truly fled in danger of their lives, this minor inconvenience should be of little concern to them.
4. Anyone found to have 'fled' a country not currently deemed unsafe should be returned there immediately, so they can pursue their asylum claim at that country's British consulate.

Off the top of my head ...

[Nor]

You go on about our 'loss of liberty' mate and our right to privacy but look at what we have at the moment.

You wake up in the morning, log on and download emails, a record of which is made. You drive into work where your license plate is photographed by CCTV, you make a call on your mobile, records of which are kept, you pop out to the bank at lunchtime to use the ATM where a record of where you are at that specific time of day is made, no doubt caught on CCTV at the same time. Buy a sandwich with your credit card, another record of where you are and what you bought. Surf the internet at night, every thing you do being logged somewhere.

What privacy are we losing exactly by carrying an id card ?

My only concern about the ID cards is nothing to do with the cards or how effective they will be at tackling the issues raised. Its about the database behind the cards and what it will contain.

Originally Posted by Nor

You go on about our 'loss of liberty' mate and our right to privacy but look at what we have at the moment.

You wake up in the morning, log on and download emails, a record of which is made. You drive into work where your license plate is photographed by CCTV, you make a call on your mobile, records of which are kept, you pop out to the bank at lunchtime to use the ATM where a record of where you are at that specific time of day is made, no doubt caught on CCTV at the same time. Buy a sandwich with your credit card, another record of where you are and what you bought. Surf the internet at night, every thing you do being logged somewhere.

What privacy are we losing exactly by carrying an id card ?

My only concern about the ID cards is nothing to do with the cards or how effective they will be at tackling the issues raised. Its about the database behind the cards and what it will contain.

All true, and I don't like it much - but the point is, if I felt strongly enough, I could legally opt out of all of it. There are plenty of places in the UK with no CCTV, for example. An ID card, however, I would have to have, if not to actually carry with me.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by towny

Still waiting for your list of reasons why ID cards are a good idea ...

Towny, you'll wait a VERY long time, I'm still waiting for his responses to my question about HOW the BNP will change things if they get into power.

The only response I got was a very rude (I'm paraphrasing by the way) "go and look it up your self if you want to know 'cos I can't be bothered"

Funnily enough I did have a quick look at their website but it was about as informative as Defiant

edit FYI people I'm for ID cards.

Originally Posted by dellwear

Towny, you'll wait a VERY long time, I'm still waiting for his responses to my question about HOW the BNP will change things if they get into power.

The only response I got was a very rude (I'm paraphrasing by the way) "go and look it up your self if you want to know 'cos I can't be bothered"

Funnily enough I did have a quick look at their website but it was about as informative as Defiant

Here we go again,

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Defiant

Here we go again,

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

This is what we mean D, you cant have a civil debate so you resort to name calling and general abuse.

How on earth are we supposed to have a civilised conversation with you if every time some one disagrees with you you start this again

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Nor

help reduce illegal labour
reduce identity fraud
dissuade assylum seekers targetting the UK
make it harder to use fake identification

off the top of my head.

Unfortunetly the use of identity cards may increase all these.........If someone gets hold of your identity card then they can esentially "become" you. ie i could murder a tourist while abroad and when i get to the UK use his identity.

Steal someones id card you have there identity.........instead of proving your identity with a pile of gas bills and bank statements it will all be on that one card.

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Defiant

Here we go again,

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Stop stealing my patter!!!!

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Nor

My only concern about the ID cards is nothing to do with the cards or how effective they will be at tackling the issues raised. Its about the database behind the cards and what it will contain.

Exactly......its what it may mean in 25 years from now. Who is to say in 25 years your very gene type or whatever it is is kept on your "record" through this card and insurance companies can access this......all very scary if you ask me !!

[Xaccers]

Towny, is part of your concern to do with the number of the beast? (and no I don't mean that really good Iron Maiden song)

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by aliferste

Unfortunetly the use of identity cards may increase all these.........If someone gets hold of your identity card then they can esentially "become" you. ie i could murder a tourist while abroad and when i get to the UK use his identity.

Steal someones id card you have there identity.........instead of proving your identity with a pile of gas bills and bank statements it will all be on that one card.

I'm afraid that on this occassion I have to agree with you


I can just imagine some gang of thugs watching me walk down the street and deciding that I am a pretty close match in looks, age and size to them.
if it was law to carry an identity card it would be well worth them attacking me for it!

I know that probably sounds a bit far fetched, but I expect the introduction of identity cards would produce that sort of crime, they may not know that you have money, credit cards, driving licence or passport etc in your wallet but it would be a certainty that you were carrying an ID card that could be of use to them.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by towny

took yer time ...

are you going to join in the fun then?

I did in the early stages but I am mostly lurking now

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Towny, is part of your concern to do with the number of the beast? (and no I don't mean that really good Iron Maiden song)

Believe it or not, it doesn't ... there would be no point campaigning against that ID card, it's prophecy so it's as good as happened.

I really do believe that Government's natural urge to pin down and control everything should be curbed, and I don't accept the suggested 'advantages' of an ID card. People will be people; they will find other ways to misbehave.

Originally Posted by Defiant

Here we go again,

Out of interest, why exactly are you a member of a discussion forum?