Uk Riots and Protests (2024)

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Total rubbish. The wages are set by the market i.e. the business owner not the applicant. Those knuckle draggers who were "protesting about immigration" can equally apply for these jobs and yet strangely they prefer to remain on the dole.

Low wages are not the fault of the immigrants. The blame lies with the employers who seek to exploit them.

I never said low wages were the fault of the immigrants.

Wages are indeed set by the market, as you say.

But what if the government have put their thumb on the scale and flooded the market with cheap non-skilled immigrant labour? Which is what they have done for 30 yrs.

Are you seriously going to try and argue that immigration hasn’t depressed wages? Should be fun if you are.

[jonbxx]

There is a huge demographic elephant in the room when we discuss migration and that is pensions. Contrary to popular belief, there isn’t a box some where in the treasury with our name on filled with our National Insurance contributions waiting for when we retire. State pensions are paid by the taxes of working people.

In the past, we saw around four taxpayers per pensioner. Now, we are closer to three and dropping all the time. This is due to us living longer (more pensioners) and having fewer children (less tax payers) The skewing to an older population increases costs in pensions (currently 10% of government expenditure) and healthcare (nearly 20% of government expenditure)

There are a few ways to solve this problem which are toxic, including raising tax, raising the pension age, reducing pensions, and Logan’s Run or we need to have more taxpayers. We can either incentivise a higher birth rate or import tax payers. The first will have an 18 year lag, the second is fast.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Total rubbish. The wages are set by the market i.e. the business owner not the applicant. Those knuckle draggers who were "protesting about immigration" can equally apply for these jobs and yet strangely they prefer to remain on the dole.

Low wages are not the fault of the immigrants. The blame lies with the employers who seek to exploit them.

Tell me you don't understand markets without telling me you don't understand markets.

[Pierre]

There’s Bank of England study from 10yrs ago, that states in the low skill sector a 10% rise in immigrant labour results in a 2% reduction in wages.

And was in 2015. Immigration levels are at least twice that level now.

[1andrew1]

Some more nuanced results here than "oh yes it does" or "oh no it doesnt't!"

Despite the popular view that cutting immigration would drive up wages, multiple academic studies have found no evidence that migration significantly affects rates of pay or employment among native populations, according to Oxford university’s Migration Observatory think-tank.

Research has shown that while immigration hit lower-paid workers harder than higher-paid workers, the overall effects were tiny. A study by the Nuffield Foundation think-tank of UK immigration between 1994 and 2016 found it had reduced the hourly wage of UK-born wage earners in the bottom 20 per cent of the labour market by about 0.5p per year, while the top 10 per cent experienced a gain of 1.7p.

Jonathan Portes, professor of economics and public policy at King's College London, said: “Truck driver wages, for example, did go up after Brexit for a variety of reasons, but if you look at accommodation and food services we didn’t see rise in wages in the aggregate data, despite news stories that it did.”

The attraction for any government is that a larger overall economy due to immigration means public sector net debt will be lower as a share of GDP than otherwise, enabling tax cuts, investment in public services or lower borrowing.

https://www.ft.com/content/5a00c171-...6-63ca292522e2

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Total rubbish. The wages are set by the market i.e. the business owner not the applicant. Those knuckle draggers who were "protesting about immigration" can equally apply for these jobs and yet strangely they prefer to remain on the dole.

Low wages are not the fault of the immigrants. The blame lies with the employers who seek to exploit them.

And if the market has tens of thousands of applicants appear out nowhere then the market is skewed and the wages drop just like it did when I was a kipper all those years ago because all the jobs that paid a couple of quid an hour over the barest minimum that could be paid legally disappeared in favour of the minimum, where the indigenous workforce were under cut by people living six to a house and happy doing 300 hours a month, we've learnt nothing and brexit and the riots are the result. Oh and for the purposes of a properly functioning, healthy economy we have zero unemployment.

---------- Post added at 16:17 ---------- Previous post was at 16:16 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Whether its far left or far right thuggery the book should be thrown at them.

Extremists, a pox on all their houses and never of help to the general population that don't follow their agendas

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

There’s Bank of England study from 10yrs ago, that states in the low skill sector a 10% rise in immigrant labour results in a 2% reduction in wages.

And was in 2015. Immigration levels are at least twice that level now.

Do you have a link?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Do you have a link?

https://assets.publishing.service.go..._Countries.pdf

[jfman]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

There are a few ways to solve this problem which are toxic, including raising tax, raising the pension age, reducing pensions, and Logan’s Run or we need to have more taxpayers. We can either incentivise a higher birth rate or import tax payers. The first will have an 18 year lag, the second is fast.

I appreciate that’s the theory (and has been put into practice for some time) but with artificially finite housing supply it pushes up the biggest element of outgoings for most people - housing.

It also drives up demand for public services, school places, wider state funded babysitting, public transport costs, health services. It’s far from clean cut and only delays that it has to be addressed properly sooner or later.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm sure that the two-child benefit cap will be ended by the time that Starmer has completed his first term.

I dont think having a cap is a bad idea, but IMO its set a little low.
I dont see a problem with 3 children, perhaps even 4, but I dont see why it should be unlimited.
Having 5+ children is just excessive, if you cant afford that many, then dont have them.

Originally Posted by Paul

I dont think having a cap is a bad idea, but IMO its set a little low.
I dont see a problem with 3 children, perhaps even 4, but I dont see why it should be unlimited.
Having 5+ children is just excessive, if you cant afford that many, then dont have them.

I would imagine that the number of families with more than 4 children means it makes a negligible difference at that point. Might as well keep things simple.

Getting back to the subject, some heafty sentences have been given out today for encouraging disorder on social media.

* Bradley Makin, 21, of Simonside Road, Springwell, Sunderland, who posted videos of himself "roaring encouragement" at rioters in Sunderland on his Instagram account, has been jailed for two years.

* Tyler Kay, 26, of Effield Court, Northampton, was jailed for 38 months after stirring up racial hatred by using social media to call for hotels housing asylum seekers to be set alight.

* At Leeds Crown Court, Jordan Parlour of Seacroft, Leeds, has been sentenced to 20 months in jail after publishing written material intended to stir racial hatred.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

I would imagine that the number of families with more than 4 children means it makes a negligible difference at that point. Might as well keep things simple.

Any limit is simple.
No limit just encourages people to keep having children they cant afford.

Originally Posted by Paul

Getting back to the subject, some heafty sentences have been given out today for encouraging disorder on social media.

They're really being quick with these. Dozens are getting sentenced every day.

Some of the disorder from 'the other side' is also getting big prison terms whatever people say on Twitter: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpdl...2f505a5e3#post

There have been persistent rumours of trouble planned to kick off at an asylum seeker hotel in my part of Scotland this week. Missus has cancelled a reservation at a local restaurant and headed in the other direction with her pals. And there’s a van full of polis in the nearby supermarket car park.

I suspect the weather (it’s showering heavily) and the rapid sentencing of idiots down south will conspire to stop anything actually happening, which obviously is a good thing, although annoyingly it will be grist to the mill of the exceptionalists whose complaint isn’t so much that these things haven’t happened in Scotland so much as that such things could never happen here, perish the thought.

[jfman]

I doubt anything similar could happen in Scotland on the same scale simply because enough of the population see through the dog whistling. We’ve consistently rejected the Tories at the ballot box. Farage has never gained much ground in any guise. The political narrative in Scotland is quite often not anti-refugee.

There’s plenty of racists sufficiently divided by other factors, political and social, it’d be impossible to collaborate on any scale.

Thatcher decimated Scotland. There’s no amount of refugees will convince the majority of the population otherwise.