[Now Official] More ntl speed changes

[mmm]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Ah DOCSIS 2 only really gives higher upstreams, DOCSIS 3 will allow 'bonding' of multiple downstream channels, supplying nominal 56Mbit using 2 channels for example, instead of 28.

DOCSIS 2 sounds a really good idea then - I'm sure my Terayon modem came with a spec that said DOCSIS 2 ready some 3 years ago!

NTL have got to raise the 64k upstream on the 300 (1Mbps) or ADSL advertising will just make a meal of the speed increases.

[kronas]

i think someone like BBking should be a better person to answer what bandwidth on the current system upload wise is available, whether it would be viable to increase upload speeds without crippling the system, or a DOCSIS change being the only costly alternative.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by kronas

i think someone like BBking should be a better person to answer what bandwidth on the current system upload wise is available, whether it would be viable to increase upload speeds without crippling the system, or a DOCSIS change being the only costly alternative.

BBKing is asleep so...

Cable networks use 2 types of cards.

MC16 - 1 downstream 6 upstream
MC28 - 2 downstreams, 4 upstreams to each downstream.

The two types of modulation used in upstreams are QPSK (Quadrature Phase Shift Keying) and 16QAM (16 point constellation Quadrature Amplitude Modulation). 16QAM requires insanely clean networks so QPSK is in use in 99% of cable networks around the world.

ntl use 3.2MHz wide upstreams, these allow 2.56 million symbols/second (think of a symbol as a snapshot of an RF wave). QPSK modulation means each symbol can carry 2 bits.

This gives a rate of 5.12Mbit/s per upstream.

Take from this all the overheads (DOCSIS is quite overheads heavy) and it leaves you with maybe 4Mbit/s of usable IP bandwidth.

From there you can do the maths yourself, bearing in mind that each card costs several thousand quid, and that each card needs its' own HFC path downstream and at least 1 if not more HFC paths upstream (these are the expensive part big fibre runs and laying fibre is still amazingly expensive) and it puts into context a bit the complexity and cost.

May seem great having all that upstream there for downstreams, but modems can travel between upstreams, and upstreams don't have to be anywhere near maxed out before pings suffer and downloading gets slowed down.

Hope this helps a bit, apologies to those whose eyes glazed over right at the start

[Matth]

I'm torn between several options, not all of which are on the poll.

1. If it's offered, stay exactly the same, 300k, 1Gb/day soft cap, do not pay £25 admin fee, do not pass go
2. Pay £25 admin fee only, and go to 1Gb - but that 5Gb cap looms uncomfortably quickly at that speed.
3. Grudgingly pay £25 admin fee AND move to 2Gb, in order to retain the same cap level
4. Shop around for a ADSL deal.

If the capping was pro-rata - 15Gb on 1, 30Gb on 2 and 45Gb on 3, I'd be queuing tp pay the admin fee, even with 10Gb.

I guess I need to tight monitor, and see just how close to the 5Gb barrier (allowing for for some increase due to faster transfer), I am already.

I'd rather see the bottom tier a bit slower, than heavily capped - and it would have made more sense if they'd simply added a top 3 Gbit tier, and rescaled the prices on the rest?

Ho long before they end up merging with Telewest anyway, and whaich way round would that go (yeah, we can guess, the worst of both worlds!)

Originally Posted by Ignition

BBKing is asleep so...

Cable networks use 2 types of cards.

MC16 - 1 downstream 6 upstream
MC28 - 2 downstreams, 4 upstreams to each downstream.

snip

Hope this helps a bit, apologies to those whose eyes glazed over right at the start

Nice bit of info there.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Matth

If the capping was pro-rata - 15Gb on 1, 30Gb on 2 and 45Gb on 3, I'd be queuing tp pay the admin fee, even with 10Gb.

I would find the 1meg a problem but as I already pay £24.99 the 2meg is fine with that limit IMPO

Originally Posted by Matth

I'd rather see the bottom tier a bit slower, than heavily capped - and it would have made more sense if they'd simply added a top 3 Gbit tier, and rescaled the prices on the rest?

This wouldn't have solved NTL customers problems. None would have moved to the usage limits un less they was offered something to move over, I joined NTL on a no usage limit BB and then they added the AUP this caused a lot of problems which I can see NTL have learnt from and are altering the service allowing the customers to select which they want. Another good idea IMPO.

Originally Posted by Matth

Ho long before they end up merging with Telewest anyway, and whaich way round would that go (yeah, we can guess, the worst of both worlds!)

stop being so negative try to look at the good 3mb for £37.99 not £50

Why not for once give some credit where its due NTL have listened and put together a way forward into the future

[Richard M]

Originally Posted by zovat

And you will be able to rub it into the faces of those who cannot get NTL

Enough!

Originally Posted by Kits

Why not for once give some credit where its due NTL have listened and put together a way forward into the future

Kits we could give it away for free and some would complain

[DieDieMyDarling]

Originally Posted by tomjleeds

What P2P networks have you heard of?! Only eDonkey and BitTorrent really do much to check you're not leeching. And yes, I do know what I'm on about.

DC++, eDonkey/eMule, BitTorrent, BearShare, to name but a few. MOST P2P networks have anti-leech facilities. They may not openly tell you, but it IS part of the software. You'll also find that unless you're downloading VERY popular files (illegal mainly) you won't get anywhere near your full download speeds anyway.

[DieDieMyDarling]

[getting 3mb because:]

To give my family a quick internet service allowing them to listen to music send images or even talk over IP without lagging the other users on the network.
Hobbies, course work, webdesign, emails and keeping in touch with family abroad......

I may be wrong here, but the more connections you have, the more upload speed you need, so if the whole family are using the computer to listen to music, send images etc, won't it still lag?

Could someone that knows clear this up?

[daxx]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Kits we could give it away for free and some would complain

and they would still not be satisfied until they'd had a word with retentions and scammed a further discount and the company ended up paying them

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by Scott

I don't think it's fair on the 300K users who want 1MB. Only 5GB of bandwidth per month?

I think for £18 a month you cant expect both a high speed and a massive allowance. If you want something more substantal then pay the extra £7 or stick with your existing 300k tier. A lot of ADSL priced at the under £20 market have either a low speed or a low GB allowance - arent there some where you can only use 1GB a month?!

The wanadoo £18 a month option gives you 1mb and an allowance of 2GB!
rising to a whopping 6GB for £23 a month!!!

Then £28 a month for a 30GB allowance - still on 1mb - BUT NTL offer 2mb for £25 a month with the same 30GB allowance!!!!

Virgin offer 512k ADSL for £18 a month with a 3GB allowance.

BT broadband basic offer 512k with a 1GB monthly allowance for £18 a month - so NTL offer 5 times the allowance and double the d/l speed!!!

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

I may be wrong here, but the more connections you have, the more upload speed you need, so if the whole family are using the computer to listen to music, send images etc, won't it still lag?

Could someone that knows clear this up?

It depends what you're using it for - if all the family are on line and you use web cams on chat (for example) then you might end up with problems but if you're all surfing then you shouldnt notice.

[altis]

Eclipse's Home 250 product is £17.99 per month an offers: 250kbps down; 256kbps up; unlimited download. Also, for an extra charge, you can temporarily boost the download speed - they call it Flexing.

http://www.eclipse.net.uk/index.cfm?...entialservices
(click both 'information' buttons for full details)

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

I may be wrong here, but the more connections you have, the more upload speed you need, so if the whole family are using the computer to listen to music, send images etc, won't it still lag?

You need a small amount of upload for tcp acks to get back to the far end, but 128k is plenty for a 3m download. The only time you would suffer (as now) is if you max out your upload while trying to download as well.

[mmm]

Originally Posted by Ignition

BBKing is asleep so...

Cable networks use 2 types of cards.

MC16 - 1 downstream 6 upstream
MC28 - 2 downstreams, 4 upstreams to each downstream.

...

Thanks for the info, I'm pretty sure the cards had to be upgraded to provide the higher download speeds, so there is a bit of capacity in the system. I do not believe it is technical though, the speeds are marketted on the headline figure of download and ntl don't want people to downgrade and pay less!

Are ntl really proposing to provide

down/up

1000/64
2000/128
3000/256

Connections?

The standard ADSL is

512/256

Why don't ntl double the upload speeds and include it in the cap (as I believe capped ADSL does)?