27-10-2005, 12:00
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#301
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
Further to Chris T's post, consumption of alcohol does not affect the health of the person you are sitting next to. Exclusions to this might be drink driving and violence/abuse caused by alcohol. However, those incidents are minor when compared to the deaths caused by smoking - and furthermore with the ban on smoking we are talking really about protecting the health of non-smoking strangers. If a non-smoker chooses to sit with a smoker, then they take some responsibility for the effect it may have on their health.
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27-10-2005, 12:22
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#302
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,986
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by clarie
What you are talking about is like a private members' club. Otherwise, I can't imagine a pub getting very far if they weren't providing for the public...
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A Public House,just means it is open to the Public. They are not duty bound to anything apart from adhere to Health and Safety etc.etc.
A licencee is allowed, if they so wish, to pick and choose who they decide to provide the service to.
If they want to bar somebody, they can.
Anyway, the goverment have now at least given a choice (sort of) to the licencees.
Only pubs that serve food will have to ban smoking, therefore your good old fashioned drinking pub that doesn't serve food is ok to carry on.
Licencees that curretly serve food can now make a judgement as to what is most important to them and if they want to serve smokers they can simply stop serving food.
Simple as that, and as far as I can see that is the end of this particular issue.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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27-10-2005, 12:26
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#303
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by Pierre
A Public House,just means it is open to the Public. They are not duty bound to anything apart from adhere to Health and Safety etc.etc.
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Thank you, you have just summed up my point entirely...
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Originally Posted by Pierre
A licencee is allowed, if they so wish, to pick and choose who they decide to provide the service to.
If they want to bar somebody, they can.
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This is also true.
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27-10-2005, 13:29
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#304
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cf.geek
Join Date: Mar 2005
Age: 51
Posts: 805
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by clarie
Further to Chris T's post, consumption of alcohol does not affect the health of the person you are sitting next to. Exclusions to this might be drink driving and violence/abuse caused by alcohol. However, those incidents are minor when compared to the deaths caused by smoking - and furthermore with the ban on smoking we are talking really about protecting the health of non-smoking strangers. If a non-smoker chooses to sit with a smoker, then they take some responsibility for the effect it may have on their health.
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I'm not so sure whether nearly half of all violent offences being alcohol related is minor when compared to smoking.
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27-10-2005, 13:30
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#305
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cf.addict
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 350
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by clarie
Further to Chris T's post, consumption of alcohol does not affect the health of the person you are sitting next to.
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It does if he or she is on a 12 month waiting list for an operation due to the fact that the health service is overburdened with alcohol related injuries and diseases.
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27-10-2005, 13:38
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#306
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Mum 30/09/20 Dad 08/08/24
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, A secret Moonbase (shh don't tell anybody)
Age: 56
Services: 2 x TiVo 360s, SH5. Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G, Ton's of Smart Home stuff, & Cuddy Toy
Posts: 17,239
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Re: smoking and the pub
I would love to have a water spray bottle and spray those who inist on blowing smoke over me, but i'ld problerly get done for assult, never mind them tring ti murder me with there smoke.
__________________
I'm a Trustee & Secretary for a local charity
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27-10-2005, 13:46
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#307
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cf.addict
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 350
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by david.ewles
I would love to have a water spray bottle and spray those who inist on blowing smoke over me, but i'ld problerly get done for assult, never mind them tring ti murder me with there smoke.
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That might be a whole lot worse for your health than passive smoking 
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27-10-2005, 14:01
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#308
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Trollsplatter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,063
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by Paddy1
It does if he or she is on a 12 month waiting list for an operation due to the fact that the health service is overburdened with alcohol related injuries and diseases.
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Be realistic, please! Just how many people do you think you're talking about here? The number of people affected by smoking is vastly greater.
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27-10-2005, 14:01
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#309
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by Paddy1
It does if he or she is on a 12 month waiting list for an operation due to the fact that the health service is overburdened with alcohol related injuries and diseases.
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But come on, that's a very indirect impact. You could say the same for many, many other things. I am talking about the direct impact of someone sitting next to me smoking a cigarette, which is far more dangerous that someone sitting next to me drinking a pint.
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27-10-2005, 14:09
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#310
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cf.addict
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 350
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Re: smoking and the pub
I realise that you personally are not affecting the health of the person next to you by having a pint but the effect on an overstretched health service from alcohol related issues cannot be said to be insignificant by any means and, as such, alcohol should be banned if we are going to be even handed in all of this.
Right, I'm off to the dentist.
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27-10-2005, 14:26
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#311
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by Paddy1
I realise that you personally are not affecting the health of the person next to you by having a pint but the effect on an overstretched health service from alcohol related issues cannot be said to be insignificant by any means and, as such, alcohol should be banned if we are going to be even handed in all of this.
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Just because currently the idea to ban alcohol is not being discussed, it doesn't mean we shouldn't ban cigarettes. That's like saying, well we can't ban all knives, so let's not ban guns either.
Agreed, alcohol can be as dangerous as smoking. But the smoking brigade are all for freedom of choice with regards dangerous substances. All we can currently do is try to protect those who chose not to smoke from those who do. No one is trying to stop people from smoking. With alcohol, there is currently no proof that there is a direct impact on the health of non-drinkers from people drinking around them that is strong enough to warrant prohibiton of alcohol consumption in public places.
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27-10-2005, 14:58
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#312
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Huthwaite, Nottinghamshire
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Posts: 4,536
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by clarie
Just because currently the idea to ban alcohol is not being discussed, it doesn't mean we shouldn't ban cigarettes. That's like saying, well we can't ban all knives, so let's not ban guns either.
Agreed, alcohol can be as dangerous as smoking. But the smoking brigade are all for freedom of choice with regards dangerous substances. All we can currently do is try to protect those who chose not to smoke from those who do. No one is trying to stop people from smoking. With alcohol, there is currently no proof that there is a direct impact on the health of non-drinkers from people drinking around them that is strong enough to warrant prohibiton of alcohol consumption in public places.
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And what is wrong with freedom of choice?
From what I can see in this thread the smoking brigade are as you say all for freedom of choice. They aren't saying that they should be allowed to smoke anywhere that they want. They just want people to be allowed to decide for themselves whether smoking is or isn't allowed on premises that they own.
Some of the non-smoking brigade though are saying that there should be no freedom of choice. They say that their view should be applied to all places no matter what the owner or his customers want.
Why did we fight in two World Wars? Why do we fight against discrimination? Banning smoking in all public enclosed spaces is discrimination and is a loss of freedom.
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27-10-2005, 15:14
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#313
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,986
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
Why did we fight in two World Wars? Why do we fight against discrimination? Banning smoking in all public enclosed spaces is discrimination and is a loss of freedom.
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It's mute point now anyway, as the "total ban" supporters have not got their way.
Hooraahh
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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27-10-2005, 15:19
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#314
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Inactive
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Punmeister Towers
Age: 50
Services: Will provide gags for cash
Posts: 9,211
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Re: smoking and the pub
Quote:
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Originally Posted by david.ewles
I would love to have a water spray bottle and spray those who inist on blowing smoke over me, but i'ld problerly get done for assult, never mind them tring ti murder me with there smoke.
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See, this is the sort of attitude that gets me - why do you think that people are trying 'to murder you'?
I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of smokers do actually take non-smokers into account, and don't purposely blow smoke in their direction. While it's fair to say that you don'y like smokers / smoking, this is the sort of comment that is just far too extreme and is almost guaranteed to wind people (particularly smokers) up. Just IMO, of course 
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27-10-2005, 15:54
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#315
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not here
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 648
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Re: smoking and the pub
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Originally Posted by ian@huth
Some of the non-smoking brigade though are saying that there should be no freedom of choice. They say that their view should be applied to all places no matter what the owner or his customers want
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I am saying that sealed rooms should be provided for those who want to smoke.
Freedom of choice cannot be given free reign when it comes to health issues, hence current legislations on health and safety matters.
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Originally Posted by Pierre
It's mute point now anyway, as the "total ban" supporters have not got their way.
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Not really, considering that :
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The ban will be reviewed within three years of being introduced, and Mrs Hewitt described it as the "big step towards" a full ban
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__________________
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nugget
I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of smokers do actually take non-smokers into account, and don't purposely blow smoke in their direction.
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He isn't saying everyone does it, just how he would like to react to those that do.
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