Football : Season 2011/12

[Uncle Peter]

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

A liar? So Suarez missed the last 8 games for nothing and never thought to launch an appeal.

Evra lied to French TV in claiming that he was racially abused 10 times then later dismissed this as a "figure of speech". This was also echoed by Ferguson in his post-match comments.

There was no point appealing when the FA do not conduct their discplinary process in a manner consistent with the law of the land certainly not when an unsuccessful appeal may result in an increased ban. Under the law of this land you cannot be found guilty of something on the balance of probability.

Suarez had every right to refuse Evra's handshake yesterday and I wouldn't blame him, however: What is not right is that he appears to have misled the manager based on Kenny Dalglish's comments before the game.

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

Evra lied to French TV in claiming that he was racially abused 10 times then later dismissed this as a "figure of speech". This was also echoed by Ferguson in his post-match comments.

So he only racially abused him a couple of times? Jesus what was all the fuss about.

[Uncle Peter]

Originally Posted by gazzae

So he only racially abused him a couple of times? Jesus what was all the fuss about.

According to Luis Suarez he didn't at all and nobody can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Since when did facts have less
value than heresay?

Should we cheapen the issue of racism in sport by using a petty, childish spat between two overpaid, childish foreign footballers as a show trial to score points against the other idiots who are running the game at a global level? I think not.

The media in this country, particularly the sports media number and herd the masses like sheep, it's beyond laughable.

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

According to Luis Suarez he didn't at all and nobody can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Since when did facts have less
value than heresay?

Suarez admitted to saying it but disputed the context. Which means Evra getting all the abuse was unacceptable. No one outside of Manchester and Liverpool cares about the rivalry. So when they see Evra getting booed and the LFC statement calling him a liar for suggesting he heard the word that Suarez admitted to saying then we object. Evra isn't especially popular so people were not pre-disposed to taking his side either.

Should we cheapen the issue of racism in sport by using a petty, childish spat between two overpaid, childish foreign footballers as a show trial to score points against the other idiots who are running the game at a global level? I think not.

Trying to accuse others of cheapening the issue of racism in the same sentence as dismissing an alleged incidence of such as a childish spat does your case no good at all. Nor does the insistence that this was done to score points against FIFA. The FA and most football clubs have been working on abolishing racism out of the game for a decade now, this has been quite a public effort, and there are prior incidents of racism being taken seriously.

The media in this country, particularly the sports media number and herd the masses like sheep, it's beyond laughable.

No, it's beyond laughable that Liverpool think that they alone see the clarity in this issue when everyone else thinks the club have handled this poorly. You really think all the media and the public have gotten this wrong? Sorry but you can't dismiss everyone as an idiot just because they disagree with Liverpool's take on the matter. Such accusations are the refuge of the conspiracy theorist.

The alternative interpretations that vindicate Liverpool can make you all look like fools. Yesterday Liverpool fans were bombarding the internet with photoshops and camera angles to suggest that Evra pulled his hand away from Suarez first, and it was in fact Evra who refused to shake hands. Yet when Match of the Day showed the entire footage from different angles it became apparent that this was another fabrication designed to turn Evra into the guilty party and Suarez into the victim. An attempt foiled by both the actual footage and Liverpool's welcome apologies today.

Again, no neutral cares about the stupid rivalry. Yet the majority think Liverpool have handled this badly. We're not all anti-Liverpool, in fact most neutrals quite like Liverpool because of the history of the club. You find tremendous support for the club when they want justice for Hillsborough and there was great sympathy for the fans of the club when they were taken over by idiots. So don't try to dismiss criticism of the club as something other than what it is. Your not convincing anyone outside of Liverpool with this argument.

Take a step back from the conspiracy theories and the siege mentality and ask yourself why a popular club finds itself under barrage from almost every quarter? Do you really think they have all been duped or 'herded like sheep'? Do you really think that Liverpool, the club that employ the player in question, are somehow the only ones who can see this clearly or do you think that you might have comprised your judgement?

Liverpool are free to maintain Suarez's innocence. They are not free to continue their attitude towards Evra nor to allege that this whole thing has been some sworded conspiracy against Liverpool or Fifa. It's tiresome and no one is buying.

Take a step back.

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

According to Luis Suarez he didn't at all and nobody can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Since when did facts have less
value than heresay?

erm he admitted to saying it.

[Uncle Peter]

He admitted to saying something in his native tongue and maintains that there was no racially motivated intent in what he said. It's Luis Suarez's perogative if he wishes to maintain his innocence with regards to the charges and verdict brought against him.

This has run it's course, it's been done to death and while he's was very wrong to have misled Kenny Dalglish was it really necessary to continue flogging a dead horse over this handshake nonsense?

Damien... from a fan's perspective do we really know if racism is a problem on the pitch? From past experience it is a sporadically occuring problem within the stands.
In the case of Suarez, subsequently Terry why is it such a hot topic in the immediate aftermath of Blatter's idiotic comments when, in times recently past the topic was dismissed as mere folly by the media and the suits around the trough?

Of course the Suarez affair was a show trial, this is not a cry of "conspiracy!". The FA have not crossed this bridge before but in the light of the Blatter comments and increasing scrutiny around said issue were undoubtedly pressured into acting the way they did when in actual fact the scrutiny should have been on their own due process. imho this is a sensitive issue for both parties which should only be dealt with under staturory law.

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

He admitted to saying something in his native tongue and maintains that there was no racially motivated intent in what he said. It's Luis Suarez's perogative if he wishes to maintain his innocence with regards to the charges and verdict brought against him.

Yes. That was been at the key of Liverpool's defence. They are welcome to that defence. I side with the FA's view that it's quite unlikely Suarez used a term of endearment towards a player during a acrimonious dispute but that's a matter of debate.

However this does mean that Evra did hear the word in question, he wasn't lying. He is also unlikely to have known the finer points of South American terminology so he understandably thought it was a racial slur. This means that at best he was the victim of a misunderstanding and at worst was a victim of racial abuse. Neither of this make him deserving of the treatment he has been receiving from Liverpool fans, the attack on his character from Liverpool's statement (hard to call him a liar when your own defence has conceded the utterance of the word in question), and the snubbing of the handshake from Suarez.

Let's be clear. Even by Suarez's version of events, he snubbed Evra for having misunderstood what he said. When such a misunderstanding occurs the correct course of action is to be apologetic that someone thought you racially abused them, not outrage.

Damien... from a fan's perspective do we really know if racism is a problem on the pitch? From past experience it is a sporadically occuring problem within the stands.

In the case of Suarez, subsequently Terry why is it such a hot topic in the immediate aftermath of Blatter's idiotic comments when, in times recently past the topic was dismissed as mere folly by the media and the suits around the trough?

I don't think the media ever took the issue of Racism in Football as folly. There have been constant campaigns and stories about it. I remember the press trying to name and shame the fans who racially abused Sol Campbell at Spurs and the outrage when players were subject to racial abuse abroad.

To try and pretend that the media and the FA have only just become concerned with Racism doesn't hold up.

Of course the Suarez affair was a show trial, this is not a cry of "conspiracy!". The FA have not crossed this bridge before but in the light of the Blatter comments and increasing scrutiny around said issue were undoubtedly pressured into acting the way they did when in actual fact the scrutiny should have been on their own due process.

No. It is a cry of conspiracy. The FA have crossed this bridge before, long before, the Blatter comments. The Liverpool fans argument that they haven't is just another attempt at revising history to support their argument, a trait common amongst conspiracy theorists. Newcastle's Emre was charged with the same offence in 2007 (although found not guilty later). Just a few days ago they charged some youth team players for the same offence. It is quite rare but then such accusations are quite rare. However the FA and clubs have always taken a hard line on fans, with fans being banned for life for Racist abuse. It's only fair to hold players to the same standard.

[NIco V]

Can we call Scholes gingerito?

[Kymmy]

McCarthy's gone

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17012933

[denphone]

A sad state of affairs if you ask me as l thought he did a very reasonable there.

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by denphone

A sad state of affairs if you ask me as l thought he did a very reasonable there.

According to Opta, he has the lowest win percentage of any manager to take charge of 100+ Premier League games. 19.6%

[denphone]

Originally Posted by gazzae

According to Opta, he has the lowest win percentage of any manager to take charge of 100+ Premier League games. 19.6%

True but you tell me if Wolves will be better off without him.

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by denphone

True but you tell me if Wolves will be better off without him.

If they stay up, yes.

They have 1 win and 1 draw from their last 6 games and only 2 wins from their last 13 games. Thats relegation form.

[thenry]

Dixons words last night on MOTD2 probably didnt help if his employers were watching.

[denphone]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17013512

Celtic don't need Rangers, says Peter Lawwell

Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell insists his club "don't need Rangers" to flourish financially.

Rangers are awaiting the verdict of a long-running tax case that could place the future of the Ibrox club in doubt.

But Lawwell says the eventuality of their Old Firm rivals going bust "would have no material effect on Celtic".

"We look after ourselves," Lawwell told BBC Scotland. "We don't rely on any other club. We are in a decent position, we're very strong."