Should Corporal Punishment Be Brought Back ?

Originally Posted by Bifta

....would you consider caning them when they misbehaved? I don't know any parents that would.

I know many that would, and if I thought it was the right thing then I would as well, just the same as I would spank them.

Beating ? - nope, a smack across the hand with a cane is not beating - nor is it abuse - to suggest such a thing is an insult to children who really are beaten and/or abused.

Still - if you want to talk about legalised beating and abuse then perhaps you should discuss boxing. Two people legally beating the crap out of each other - bizzarre.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by pem

I know many that would, and if I thought it was the right thing then I would as well, just the same as I would spank them.

As I said, I don't know any that would.

Beating ? - nope, a smack across the hand with a cane is not beating - nor is it abuse - to suggest such a thing is an insult to children who really are beaten and/or abused.

Deliberately inflicting pain on a child is beyond contempt, it's made no better by condoning the use of an object for the purpose.

Still - if you want to talk about legalised beating and abuse then perhaps you should discuss boxing. Two people legally beating the crap out of each other - bizzarre.

That's got absolutely nothing to do with this thread whatsoever, both boxers are willing participants, unless of course you also know of children who are happy to receive a beating from an adult for money.

[Julian]

The schools don't need the cane or whatever... they only need the full support of parents in disciplinary matters.

When I was at school, the cane was still in use. It wasn't the thought of the cane that acted as a deterrent - it was what would happen when my parents found out.

The most disruptive pupils are usually the ones whose parents march up to the school when their precious innocent little ones have been out of order, with the sole intention of undermining the teachers authority.

Originally Posted by Bifta

Deliberately inflicting pain on a child is beyond contempt, it's made no better by condoning the use of an object for the purpose.

Well that may be your opinion, but it is not shared by me. As far as I am concerned inflicting pain is a form of punishment, just like many others I use - and has been sucessfully used by millions of parents for thousands of years.

[Bifta]

Here's a few reasons why hitting children is wrong (stolen from another site I hasten to add).

1. Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves. Extensive research data is now available to support a direct correlation between corporal punishment in childhood and aggressive or violent behavior in the teenage and adult years. Virtually all of the most dangerous criminals were regularly threatened and punished in childhood. It is nature's plan that children learn attitudes and behaviors through observation and imitation of their parents' actions, for good or ill. Thus it is the responsibility of parents to set an example of empathy and wisdom.

2. In many cases of so-called "bad behavior", the child is simply responding in the only way he can, given his age and experience, to neglect of basic needs. Among these needs are: proper sleep and nutrition, treatment of hidden allergy, fresh air, exercise, and sufficient freedom to explore the world around him. But his greatest need is for his parents' undivided attention. In these busy times, few children receive sufficient time and attention from their parents, who are often too distracted by their own problems and worries to treat their children with patience and empathy. It is surely wrong and unfair to punish a child for responding in a natural way to having important needs neglected. For this reason, punishment is not only ineffective in the long run, it is also clearly unjust.

3. Punishment distracts the child from learning how to resolve conflict in an effective and humane way. As the educator John Holt wrote, "When we make a child afraid, we stop learning dead in its tracks." A punished child becomes preoccupied with feelings of anger and fantasies of revenge, and is thus deprived of the opportunity to learn more effective methods of solving the problem at hand. Thus, a punished child learns little about how to handle or prevent similar situations in the future.

4. †œSpare the rod and spoil the childââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�, though much quoted, is in fact a misinterpretation of Biblical teaching. While the †œrodâà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� is mentioned many times in the Bible, it is only in the Book of Proverbs that this word is used in connection with parenting. The book of Proverbs is attributed to Solomon, an extremely cruel man whose harsh methods of discipline led his own son, Rehoboam, to become a tyrannical and oppressive dictator who only narrowly escaped being stoned to death for his cruelty. In the Bible there is no support for harsh discipline outside of Solomonââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s Proverbs. By contrast, the writings in the Gospels, the most important books in the Bible for Christians, contain the teachings of Jesus Christ, who urged mercy, forgiveness, humility, and non-violence. Jesus saw children as being close to God, and urged love, never punishment.3

5. Punishment interferes with the bond between parent and child, as it is not human nature to feel loving toward someone who hurts us. The true spirit of cooperation which every parent desires can arise only through a strong bond based on mutual feelings of love and respect. Punishment, even when it appears to work, can produce only superficially good behavior based on fear, which can only take place until the child is old enough to resist. In contrast, cooperation based on respect will last permanently, bringing many years of mutual happiness as the child and parent grow older.

6. Many parents never learned in their own childhood that there are positive ways of relating to children. When punishment does not accomplish the desired goals, and if the parent is unaware of alternative methods, punishment can escalate to more frequent and dangerous actions against the child.

7. Anger and frustration which cannot be safely expressed by a child become stored inside; angry teenagers do not fall from the sky. Anger that has been accumulating for many years can come as a shock to parents whose child now feels strong enough to express this rage. Punishment may appear to produce "good behavior" in the early years, but always at a high price, paid by parents and by society as a whole, as the child enters adolescence and early adulthood.

8. Spanking on the buttocks, an erogenous zone in childhood, can create in the child's mind an association between pain and sexual pleasure, and lead to difficulties in adulthood. "Spanking wanted" ads in alternative newspapers attest to the sad consequences of this confusion of pain and pleasure. If a child receives little parental attention except when being punished, this will further merge the concepts of pain and pleasure in the child's mind. A child in this situation will have little self-esteem, believing he deserves nothing better. For more on this topic, see "The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children" (also in French).

Even relatively moderate spanking can be physically dangerous. Blows to the lower end of the spinal column send shock waves along the length of the spine, and may injure the child. The prevalence of lower back pain among adults in our society may well have its origins in childhood punishment. Some children have become paralyzed through nerve damage from spanking, and some have died after mild paddlings, due to undiagnosed medical complications.

9. Physical punishment gives the dangerous and unfair message that "might makes right", that it is permissible to hurt someone else, provided they are smaller and less powerful than you are. The child then concludes that it is permissible to mistreat younger or smaller children. When he becomes an adult, he can feel little compassion for those less fortunate than he is, and fears those who are more powerful. This will hinder the establishment of meaningful relationships so essential to an emotionally fulfilling life.

10. Because children learn through parental modeling, physical punishment gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express feelings and to solve problems. If a child does not observe a parent solving problems in a creative and humane way, it can be difficult for him to learn to do this himself. For this reason, unskilled parenting often continues into the next generation.

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by pem

Well that may be your opinion, but it is not shared by me. As far as I am concerned inflicting pain is a form of punishment, just like many others I use - and has been sucessfully used by millions of parents for thousands of years.

And after all that time it still doesn't work.
Inflicting pain does more in terms of giving you instant satisfaction whilst you are angry than it does instructing/educating the child as how to behave properly next time. Its an admission that you've totally lost it because you have reacted without thought. I will bet that if you sat down and cooled off for 20mins or so then you probably would not feel like smacking the child.

[Stuartbe]

I was moved between loads of schools when I was younger as I had a big bullying problem. I had both legs broken, my arm broken, My jaw broken and I was kicked where you should not kick several times. I had to have an operation later on in my 20's to repair the damage......

This was the only school where the bullying stoped. Two children from my old school transfered with me and on the first day it started again. The headmaster pulled us all into the office and told us what would happen if the bullying started up again.

IT STOPPED......

I am not advicating beating children. There is the world of difference between a beating and a smack.

When our family first moved to Luton we lived in one of the mose crime ridden and violent areas. All the kids were stealing cars and doing lines of charlie...

My and my brother did not do this - Why - becouse my dad would have given us both a good hiding...

The cane was never used all the time I was at that school. The fact that it was there and could be used was enough of a deterent.

I dont have kids but when I do they will be brought up the way Lesleyann and I fell right for them. I would only smack my childeren in the most serios of cases.

I have some very good freinds that use smacking when it is needed. They have 4 children 4,8,13,15 years old. They are polite, well manered and would never steal anything.........

In my experience it does not hurt and I believe that the reason that kids behave as they do now is becouse there is no dicipline...

My 2p's worth !

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

I was moved between loads of schools when I was younger as I had a big bullying problem. I had both legs broken, my arm broken, My jaw broken and I was kicked where you should not kick several times. I had to have an operation later on in my 20's to repair the damage......

This was the only school where the bullying stoped. Two children from my old school transfered with me and on the first day it started again. The headmaster pulled us all into the office and told us what would happen if the bullying started up again.

IT STOPPED......

I am not advicating beating children. There is the world of difference between a beating and a smack.

When our family first moved to Luton we lived in one of the mose crime ridden and violent areas. All the kids were stealing cars and doing lines of charlie...

My and my brother did not do this - Why - becouse my dad would have given us both a good hiding...

The cane was never used all the time I was at that school. The fact that it was there and could be used was enough of a deterent.

I dont have kids but when I do they will be brought up the way Lesleyann and I fell right for them. I would only smack my childeren in the most serios of cases.

I have some very good freinds that use smacking when it is needed. They have 4 children 4,8,13,15 years old. They are polite, well manered and would never steal anything.........

In my experience it does not hurt and I believe that the reason that kids behave as they do now is becouse there is no dicipline...

My 2p's worth !

that is a shocking story mate , i think sometimes just the thought of what might happen is enough to stop anything happening

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

In my experience it does not hurt and I believe that the reason that kids behave as they do now is becouse there is no dicipline...

So how do you explain kids that grow up to never get in trouble with the law, secure good jobs and settle down, don't do drugs and we're never hit by their parents when they misbehaved? I'll tell you how, it's called "good parenting" and anyone that feels the need to hit their own (or anyone elses) kids need to re-evaluate said skills.

Originally Posted by Julian

The schools don't need the cane or whatever... they only need the full support of parents in disciplinary matters.

When I was at school, the cane was still in use. It wasn't the thought of the cane that acted as a deterrent - it was what would happen when my parents found out.

The most disruptive pupils are usually the ones whose parents march up to the school when their precious innocent little ones have been out of order, with the sole intention of undermining the teachers authority.

PRECISELY!!!!!!!

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

that is a shocking story mate , i think sometimes just the thought of what might happen is enough to stop anything happening

Thanks m8 - It was not a very happy part of my life.... It destroyed my childhood totaly.

Unless you have been through it there is no way to describe it. This is why many children commit suicide !!! It grinds you down and makes you want to end it all.

Kids can be the most cruel creatures IMO...

These poxy schools that say " its part of growing up " need raising to the ground as far as I am concerned

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by Bifta

So how do you explain kids that grow up to never get in trouble with the law, secure good jobs and settle down, don't do drugs and we're never hit by their parents when they misbehaved? I'll tell you how, it's called "good parenting" and anyone that feels the need to hit their own (or anyone elses) kids need to re-evaluate said skills.

I said dicipline - NOT smacking....... !!!!

Smacking is only one part of it and IMO is used as the very last option....

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

I said dicipline - NOT smacking....... !!!!

Smacking is only one part of it and IMO is used as the very last option....

But your idea of discipline as indicated by the thread title IS corporal punishment. Which is wrong ... plain and simple, it's a lazy, cowardly way out for any so called parent.

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by Julian

The schools don't need the cane or whatever... they only need the full support of parents in disciplinary matters.

When I was at school, the cane was still in use. It wasn't the thought of the cane that acted as a deterrent - it was what would happen when my parents found out.

The most disruptive pupils are usually the ones whose parents march up to the school when their precious innocent little ones have been out of order, with the sole intention of undermining the teachers authority.

I agree with you and Incog. The teachers need the full support of the parents....That sure did not happen at all the public schools I went to !

Originally Posted by Flubflow

And after all that time it still doesn't work.

Um, says who ? Works just fine here. It taught my children that if they badly misbehaved they would be punished. As a result they have learned good behavior from bad.

As for those of you who don't agree with it then fine - that's up to you - there is no need to be insulting because people disagree with you - if that is how it is going to progress in here then I'm outta here.