US style british citizenship a positive step ?

[Xaccers]

No, we don't brainwash our kids into thinking our country is the best.
Maybe we should, perhaps being British we wouldn't come across as arrogant as americans do with that view.

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Once again, I'm puzzled. You mean to say you guys never sing your national anthem? What about in school?

No never. I remember once in school, when I was about 7, the NA was played in assembly. The teacher then berated everyone for not standing up during it, we were 7 for #!£$"s sake.

I never stand nor sing the NA for the simple fact that I do not believe in what it is saying.

[Jerrek]

How is pledging allegiance to one's country "brainwashing into thinking our country is the best?"

How is singing your national anthem "brainwashing into thinking our country is the best?"

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

How is pledging allegiance to one's country "brainwashing into thinking our country is the best?"

How is singing your national anthem "brainwashing into thinking our country is the best?"

Being made to repeat a mantra day after day is a well known form of brainwashing :pp

[Jerrek]

You didn't answer my questions. I tell someone every day "I love you" too, and I don't consider that brainwashing.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

You didn't answer my questions. I tell someone every day "I love you" too, and I don't consider that brainwashing.

So everytime you say "I love you" it's a concious effort?
You never find yourself saying it out of habbit?

(you do know I'm teasing don't you?)

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

You didn't answer my questions. I tell someone every day "I love you" too, and I don't consider that brainwashing.

It's the compulsion element that is unsettling Jerrek

An oath or pledge given voluntarily means something but forced repetition diminishes its credibility and becomes a mockery of the original pledge with people simply paying lip service to the words without actually meaning them.

Perhaps what has happened in the UK is that we have grown up a little and finally realised that being a good citizen has nothing to do with giving blind allegiance to the State.

[Xaccers]

Yes, what sociable said, that's what I meant

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by Sociable

It's the compulsion element that is unsettling Jerrek

Who said it is compulsory? If you don't want to say the pledge, you don't hve to. If you don't want to sing the national anthem, you don't have to.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Sociable

It's the compulsion element that is unsettling Jerrek

An oath or pledge given voluntarily means something but forced repetition diminishes its credibility and becomes a mockery of the original pledge with people simply paying lip service to the words without actually meaning them.

Perhaps what has happened in the UK is that we have grown up a little and finally realised that being a good citizen has nothing to do with giving blind allegiance to the State.

However I think the act in itself makes american citizen think of themselves less of an individual, but as part of a nation.

I believe a lot of the social problems now occuring in this country are down to the fact that we don't think as a nation but as individuals.

[Jerrek]

Yes indeed. It forms bonds of association. If I'm in some god-forsaken country in this world, my face always brightens when I hear an American/Canadian accent. If an earthquake strikes California, I feel a lot more pain than a simliar earthquake hitting people I don't know.

The more I associate with someone, the more inclined I am to feel his or her pain, joy, and other emotions. And I do think that pledging allegiance and singing the national anthem as a nation does a lot for the soul.

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

my face always brightens when I hear an American/Canadian accent.

Mine too

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

However I think the act in itself makes american citizen think of themselves less of an individual, but as part of a nation.

I believe a lot of the social problems now occuring in this country are down to the fact that we don't think as a nation but as individuals.

America has alot of the same social problems, often worse than we do.

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Yes indeed. It forms bonds of association. If I'm in some god-forsaken country in this world, my face always brightens when I hear an American/Canadian accent. If an earthquake strikes California, I feel a lot more pain than a simliar earthquake hitting people I don't know.

The more I associate with someone, the more inclined I am to feel his or her pain, joy, and other emotions. And I do think that pledging allegiance and singing the national anthem as a nation does a lot for the soul.

Ahh and thereby hangs the reputation of the US and so many other nation states. "My country right or wrong".

Perhaps remembering we are all citizens of the world with duties and responsibilities to all humanity regardless of nation, creed, religion or anything else that divides us is the key.

Flag waving jingoism only serves to divide and antagonize and has no place in a modern world IMHO.

Accepting that a child's tears carry the same pain where ever they are shed is therefore my personal point of reference.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

America has alot of the same social problems, often worse than we do.

Though in parts I think it is a lot better than the UK. Where my wife comes from in upstate NY seems far more socially cohesive than, say Hertford where we live.