voting

[Nor]

Originally Posted by Flubflow

You have a large sweeping brush called "generalisation".

You have to generalise though, to speak for every student individually in my post would be impossible. I don't think its wrong though to say 'alot' of students don't take it seriously. You've got me on 'most' courses. Perhaps it was wrong to suggest 'most' courses are pointless, but a helluva lot are.

When I said most courses are pointless what I mean is that university courses rarely teach people what they need to know to do the actual job. I'll tone it down to a helluva lot though.

Has anyone been to university here and believes most students work really hard and most courses are really worthwhile and teach the students what they need to know to do their job ?

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Nor

Not gonna bother arguing, you've made up your mind. Having not been to uni yourself you've decided students nowadays are totally different to those 8 years ago when I left university.


Not sure what you are trying to prove by naming 4 different subjects you can do courses on. If you want to believe that most people goto university, take it seriously, work really hard and then use what they've learned in their chosen profession fair enough, I'll never change your mind.

i believe a minority do not finish there education in university and decide to have a laugh instead

Originally Posted by Nor

When you've been to university you'll realise its not like that. But just like most 17 year olds, you are always right and always know best, despite having zero experience in the matter.

ignorance is such a blissful thing living in the past as such........

as you are quite right you cannot fathom what i am trying to say so we shall leave it at that

oh and if the best argument you can give is your 17 years old etc try looking at your own views just because one is young does not mean he is inexperianced i dont need to prove to you or anyone else i let my posts do the talking

not cawer behind the easy option of pointing out age of someone ageism anyone ??

[Nor]

The thing is Kronas, you say ignorance is bliss. You are the one basing your opinion on your sister going to uni and what a few others have told you.

I've been there, seen it, done it. You are saying its all changed since I left uni 8 years ago. Lol yeah the human race has changed in 8 years

I give up. When you goto university you'll see what I mean.

[edit] With regards to agism. The thing is, I've been 17 I know what I was like and what my friends were like at 17. Old folk were always out of touch, they didn't know what things were like now. But we do, cos things never change I do have to laugh when you say I'm living in the past and that in 8 years students have suddenly changed into these grateful, hard working models of excellence

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Nor

The thing is Kronas, you say ignorance is bliss. You are the one basing your opinion on your sister going to uni and what a few others have told you.

and ?

point being ?

if i have seen conclusive proof from a broadrange of people from diffarent backgrounds that have acheived what i have stated kind of contradicts what you say

Originally Posted by Nor

I've been there, seen it, done it. You are saying its all changed since I left uni 8 years ago. Lol yeah the human race has changed in 8 years

I give up. When you goto university you'll see what I mean.

yep things do change notice the rise in crime vandalism teens being jailed or put in to correctional facilities

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Nor

The thing is Kronas, you say ignorance is bliss. You are the one basing your opinion on your sister going to uni and what a few others have told you.

I've been there, seen it, done it. You are saying its all changed since I left uni 8 years ago. Lol yeah the human race has changed in 8 years

I give up. When you goto university you'll see what I mean.

[edit] With regards to agism. The thing is, I've been 17 I know what I was like and what my friends were like at 17. Old folk were always out of touch, they didn't know what things were like now. But we do, cos things never change I do have to laugh when you say I'm living in the past and that in 8 years students have suddenly changed into these grateful, hard working models of excellence

One of things that keeps cropping up time and time again is your need to repeatedly state "I've been to university" as if that statement in itself is the ultimate aloof proof and your argument is beyond challenge and scrutiny.

I really don't know how any university could ever function for very long or build a reputation (which would attract more fees and funding) if a large proportion of its students continually failed or dropped out over the years. Perhaps you went to one of those sucky ones which were renowned for being "fun".
Some universities and their various departments are sprawled out over the city and your particular experience may be of just one department in just one university.

[Nor]

It crops up I guess because I'm using my experience at university in this discussion. If I didn't say I'd been surely that would affect the discussion ?

I'm not talking about large proportions of students failing and dropping out. Thats the laughable fact. People pee about, don't study, don't put the work in, don't turn up to classes and they still get their degree. Its harder to fail a degree these days than it is to pass.

If you want to keep taking pot shots at me for being out of touch fair enough. If you want to believe every student (apart from a small minority) are hard working, grateful for their chance to learn and put to good use what they've learned at uni in a full time job when they leave, fair enough. I don't think thats the case, but perhaps folk know better than me.

[Flubflow]

You are repeatedly saying it (and other variants of it with added fizz) in blatant way that does nothing other than to try to discourage criticism.
Yes you are using YOUR experience for your case and that would have been just fine if you had left it there. Your experience does not count for the entire university population of Great Britain. If you are implying that I shouldn't believe every student then, by the same token, why on earth should I believe you?. I think that unless you have actual facts and statisitics for all universities then you should put your sweeping statements on hold.

[Florence]

The point of uni is so they can do the jobs they want. My son wants to study Law without the uni this would be denied him. My Daughter has her eyes set on being a teacher Perhaps not a wise choice but she needs to go to uni to get into teaching.

If we was made to pay then thats £6,000 a year more than I earn in a year... This route wll make uni places only available to the rich who half the time do waste their time there as they know they don't need the money.

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Kitty

The point of uni is so they can do the jobs they want. My son wants to study Law without the uni this would be denied him. My Daughter has her eyes set on being a teacher Perhaps not a wise choice but she needs to go to uni to get into teaching.

If we was made to pay then thats £6,000 a year more than I earn in a year... This route wll make uni places only available to the rich who half the time do waste their time there as they know they don't need the money.

If you are on low income then you don't have to contribute anything (works on a sliding scale though). I think the ones that it might worst affect are the large families that have an income just above or near the threshold but are mortgaged, bank loaned, Credit Carded and generally just expended up to the hilt.
At the end of the day and just like the old days, it still costs you money I suppose and students will probably still rely on extra handouts from their parents or grannies (or have to get part time jobs) just to stay above squalor. In an ideal world, it would be great if you lived right near a university which did exactly the course your son requires.

The problem I have with the government opening up the fees like they plan to is that some people might be tempted shop around based purely on fee price rather than real preference and possibly end up doing a course which is not entirely suited to their needs. If there is one thing that helps a student it is being at a place where they actually desire to be at.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3013272.stm

[caledoniangold]

When you've been thru it Kronos you will look back at Nors message and see the wisdom contained therein .

CG

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Nor

Kronos I went to university. Been there, done it, seen it happen with my own eyes. Perhaps I didn't goto the best one, but this is what I'm talking about. A good proportion of people pee about and do not use the tax payers money wisely.

.

I did so myself on my first degree course

[Dave Stones]

here at birmingham they have a rather good way of stopping people messing about and not learning anything and so forth -- get below 40% in your first year and you have to do straight exam resits that dont include coursework etc. nightmare...

obviously i cant speak for every university in the land but here people ****ing about is dealt with quite well... in my lectures of 400 or so people there are maybe 15 or 20 (yes back row people up in the nosebleed section) who do sod all...

i thought this thread was abuot voting ages anyway?

oh and my degree course isnt pointless...

[edit] and my tax money goes on tuition... i have to work and pay tax on my earnings and get a loan to live :p